Beginners mistakes

[Moses]

I dissolved a bunch of what I believe to be palladium silver alloy contacts, I've had them in aqua regia heating for a long time and wonder how much urea I use and when and how much water is needed also should the AR be hot or cold during neutralizing? sure would appreciate any feedback I have only urea or baking soda to neutralize with in the photo I poured some of the liquid into the ceramic bowl all the liquid was in the glass Pyrex and ehat is the grey scum floating on top before AR i boiled them in hydrochloric acid and drained it. thanksGypsy scrapper

 

[Moses]

when I use zinc to precipitate palladium from aqua regia do I have to neutralize all the acid first and to what ph if so before I add the zinc I seen the old boy sreetips precipitate gold with zinc and he didn't neutralize the AR first

 

[Yggdrasil]

I dissolved a bunch of what I believe to be palladium silver alloy contacts, I've had them in aqua regia heating for a long time and wonder how much urea I use and when and how much water is needed also should the AR be hot or cold during neutralizing? sure would appreciate any feedback I have only urea or baking soda to neutralize with in the photo I poured some of the liquid into the ceramic bowl all the liquid was in the glass Pyrex and ehat is the grey scum floating on top before AR i boiled them in hydrochloric acid and drained it. thanksGypsy scrapper

No Urea at all, we do not recommend using Urea in refining.
There are mainly two ways.
Not use to much Nitric in the first place or use either Sulfamic acid or evaporation to deal with excess Nitric.

Since you used AR the Silver is mostly untouched, and then you can cement the Pd with Copper or Zinc.

We do not neutralize solutions until we treat our waste (Neutralize means bring to pH 7)
Put your Chemicals and solutions away in a safe place and start to study.
PGM salts are extremely toxic and are no joke, we have members who died form exposure to them.

Here are for your studies:

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[Yggdrasil]

when I use zinc to precipitate palladium from aqua regia do I have to neutralize all the acid first and to what ph if so before I add the zinc I seen the old boy sreetips precipitate gold with zinc and he didn't neutralize the AR first

No need to neutralize, but do as I told you in your other post and start to study.

 

[Shark]

Urea does not neutralize nitric.

 

[jurekk12]

Hi
. All metal operations should be done either in a fume hood or outdoors .
Many are very toxic and dangerous - even taking the ore home can be insanely dangerous .
Urea was used in ancient times for refining - can be used in a neutralization reaction -
especially HNO3 - but why? !!!
It is better to obtain KNO3, HNO3 from itthan neutralize the acid -from urea you will obtain KNO3, HNO3and good fertilizer for the garden and almost for free .

jurek

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi
. All metal operations should be done either in a fume hood or outdoors .
Many are very toxic and dangerous - even taking the ore home can be insanely dangerous .
Urea was used in ancient times for refining - can be used in a neutralization reaction -
especially HNO3 - but why? !!!
It is better to obtain KNO3, HNO3 from itthan neutralize the acid -from urea you will obtain KNO3, HNO3and good fertilizer for the garden and almost for free .

jurek

You do not make much sense here.
Explain your understanding on neutralization please.

Urea has been used in the past, not because it was the best option not even a good option, but mostly because it was the option they had available.
Today Urea has its best use as a fertilizer.
You will not obtain Potassium Nitrate from Urea and Nitric.
You will get Urea Nitrate witch is not a compound we want to have with our valuable Gold.

Edit to add:
Have you read Hokes book?

 

[Martijn]

I dissolved a bunch of what I believe to be palladium silver alloy contacts, I've had them in aqua regia heating for a long time and wonder how much urea I use and when and how much water is needed also should the AR be hot or cold during neutralizing? sure would appreciate any feedback I have only urea or baking soda to neutralize with in the photo I poured some of the liquid into the ceramic bowl all the liquid was in the glass Pyrex and ehat is the grey scum floating on top before AR i boiled them in hydrochloric acid and drained it. thanksGypsy scrapper

Welcome to the forum, you may have still gotten here just in time...

Put your things away and read study, check your life insurance, and go see a doctor!!!!

Pd in solution is very toxic, and that "Beaker, nice filter disposal pot, vessel and safe clean work space" you have there are a recipe for a very short lifespan. I hope you will stay alive long enough to learn from it.

Ask your boss to unlock the ankle chain. (just kidding)

Some observations:

1. You don't dissolve silver and Pd in AR, but in HNO3
2. Urea is not for refining, but for plants fertilizing
3. Stop watching idiotic life threatening You-Tube clickbait video's
4. Everything in you picture is lethal! Including the lack of safety!
5. You never neutralize pregnant AR, Yours likely is not holding precious metals.

Stop or you will die!!! Soon!!!

Every single thing you are doing is wrong!!

 

[kurtak]

what I believe to be palladium silver alloy contacts,

First of all palladium/silver contacts are quite rare & come out of specialized equipment - like OLD telecom switching gear - never in things like magnetic disconnects, circuit breakers or run of the mill (consumer) relays so your odds of having palladium/silver contacts are not real good

I've had them in aqua regia heating for a long time

Secondly - you NEVER process silver with AR - it is ALWAYS processed with nitric acid

I suggest that you STOP doing what you are doing until you have done more studying & research about the recovery & refining of precious metals before playing with the chemicals used in the recovery & refining of precious metals because right now all you are doing is creating problems & messes that are TOXIC

And for what it is worth STOP watching youtube videos - they are LOADED with bad &/or miss information & even out right WRONG information

Kurt

 

[minero74]

Good morning guys

Working with Palladium is way dangerous.
Even for peoples with lot of experience is quite difficult to dealing with.

personally i don’t deal with Palladium,and is something that i don’t want to work with,because it toxicity
mean can kill You and cripple You .

Mostly all Youtube videos are Edit it.
So they almost all the time miss very important steps in the process

and those missed steps can be the key in safety
many peoples have been seriously hurt just for
following Youtube videos.

The key Like many members of this forum telling You is Study and more study

learn the process the right way,don’t do short cuts
learn the safety process of precious metals refining
Safety is the most important steps.

Stop the process before getting hurt.
Don’t risk Your life for any amount of gold,palladium,platinum,ect.

God bless You and i hope You learn it the right way
Here in the forum there is lot of the best tutorial writen by peoples that Know refining like no others
and is Free .

We are Bless that they want to share their knowledge with Us.

 

[Marcel]

Urea is a bad choice, still for decades this bad practice floats around as solution. Even Hoke named it once or twice. The reasons why it is bad for this purpose have been stated before. But there are several very important usecases for the application of Urea in conjunction with NOx or HNO3.

For example the use of Urea in Diesel engine exhaust cleaning. Urea can trap NOx gases very well and that is why it is used there.

For my "SHTF" Gold Scrapper book I was thinking of a method on how to generate your own Nictric acid by bubbling the exhaust gases from a car through a bucket filled with urea solution (or in doomsday scenario even diluted urine should do the job). Could work in theory, but have not tried that out so far! Maybe someone else will do that now?

Something a bit "exotic" to reduce HNO3
I know the process is complex, but I have made good experiences with:

AuCl3+HNO3+H2O2→HAuCl4+NO3−+2H2O

So adding H2O2 will basically create NOx and water from exess which will then further dilute the solution.
Worked well for me, but maybe I oversaw something or do not consider new problems created. So correct me if I am wrong.
Other than that I found it to be an easy way. Will foam a little bit (white foam) then the HNO3 will brake down very soon. So first it increases the ability of the pregnant solution to further dissolve Gold trough additional oxidation then after adding some more H2O2 this ability decreases drastically. I know this may sound unorthodox. It is just a bit of an unusal concept.
So be easy on me please....

 

[Moses]

You do not make much sense here.
Explain your understanding on neutralization please.

Urea has been used in the past, not because it was the best option not even a good option, but mostly because it was the option they had available.
Today Urea has its best use as a fertilizer.
You will not obtain Potassium Nitrate from Urea and Nitric.
You will get Urea Nitrate witch is not a compound we want to have with our valuable Gold.

Edit to add:
Have you read Hokes book?

well I dont have sulfamic acid to denox AQ I only have baking soda and Urea and smb and some zinc.

 

[Moses]

First of all palladium/silver contacts are quite rare & come out of specialized equipment - like OLD telecom switching gear - never in things like magnetic disconnects, circuit breakers or run of the mill (consumer) relays so your odds of having palladium/silver contacts are not real good


Secondly - you NEVER process silver with AR - it is ALWAYS processed with nitric acid

I suggest that you STOP doing what you are doing until you have done more studying & research about the recovery & refining of precious metals before playing with the chemicals used in the recovery & refining of precious metals because right now all you are doing is creating problems & messes that are TOXIC

And for what it is worth STOP watching youtube videos - they are LOADED with bad &/or miss information & even out right WRONG information

Kurt

your right about YouTube you never hear anyone mention the Ph of thier solutions there is a lot left out that I've unfortunately had to learn the hard way that is why I finally threw in the towel and came to this forum for advice im currently reading C.M.Hokes book which has shown me how little I knew from watching YouTube lol

 

[FrugalRefiner]

well I dont have sulfamic acid to denox AQ

Buy some. It's that simple. When I started refining, I didn't have any of the equipment or chemicals I needed. So, I bought them. Sulfamic acid is available at most hardware stores. It's sold as a grout cleaner in the tile section. There are hundreds of posts about it on the forum.

What is AQ?

Dave

 

[Martijn]

your right about YouTube you never hear anyone mention the Ph of thier solutions there is a lot left out that I've unfortunately had to learn the hard way that is why I finally threw in the towel and came to this forum for advice im currently reading C.M.Hokes book which has shown me how little I knew from watching YouTube lol

If you do any reaction with acids, the pH will be 1. That's why it's not worth mentioning.

 

[Yggdrasil]

well I dont have sulfamic acid to denox AQ I only have baking soda and Urea and smb and some zinc.

Baking Soda will not deNOx anything just lift the pH to 7 (neutral) and beyond depending on amount.
You need to study so you understand what is happening and why.

 

[Shark]

Find a Lowe’s, Homedepot or other large hardware/home building store and get some sulfamic acid. Or get more material to run and use up the excess. An extra gold button works as well. Hmmmm… gold button or sulfamic? Starting to sound cheaper to go the sulfamic route.

 

[Moses]

Buy some. It's that simple. When I started refining, I didn't have any of the equipment or chemicals I needed. So, I bought them. Sulfamic acid is available at most hardware stores. It's sold as a grout cleaner in the tile section. There are hundreds of posts about it on the forum.

What is AQ?

Dave

I meant to say AR but had a typo

 

[Moses]

No Urea at all, we do not recommend using Urea in refining.
There are mainly two ways.
Not use to much Nitric in the first place or use either Sulfamic acid or evaporation to deal with excess Nitric.

Since you used AR the Silver is mostly untouched, and then you can cement the Pd with Copper or Zinc.

We do not neutralize solutions until we treat our waste (Neutralize means bring to pH 7)
Put your Chemicals and solutions away in a safe place and start to study.
PGM salts are extremely toxic and are no joke, we have members who died form exposure to them.

Here are for your studies:

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

i tool your advice and cemented with zinc

 

[minero74]

I was using urea before,until i found this forum
and read about denox with Sulfamic acid.

and denoxing with sulfamic acid is way
easier and faster.
i bought my sulfamic acid at Homedepot

I don’t have to use much,because i learn from here
not to use lot of Nitric acid,just enough to dissolve the gold .

I denox my solution with half of spoon of sulfamic acid ,enough for the small amount of nitric acid i put in the solution
and work prefectly.

I heat the solution ,then I add sulfamic acid to the warm solution ,until stop bubbling.
them I precipitate my gold with Iron sulfate.
By doing that way ,I saved lot of nitric acid .

(Edited).