gecekurdu42
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Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:
Hii Manuel
This İron very problem nitric acid. ((
Breaking the acid.
All about silver button batteries
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Hii Manuel
This İron very problem nitric acid. ((
Breaking the acid.
amosfella
Well-known member
Juan, I heard on another thread that you had another process that doesn't involve nitric acid but flouroboric, Do you have any information on this that you'd be willing to share??
amosfella
Well-known member
Also, would it be easier to use a ball mill to open the batteries??
Thank you,GSP.You are right,as always.The batteries that you have mentioned have a lot of mercury,but you can recongize them pretty soon,they are taller than silver cells and do not have a manufacturer´s name behind and do not contain any silver.I promess to show a pic of them as fast
as I can,because if you open them liquid mercury flows down,the good news is that some of them are gold plated.
as I can,because if you open them liquid mercury flows down,the good news is that some of them are gold plated.
BAKARAT said:
The liquid should turn bluish purple as the AgCl dissolves. A little heat and a lot of stirring helps. The aqua ammonia should be at least 10% concentration, with 28% preferred (conc. NH4OH). Be very careful when using full strength aqua ammonia, it will take your breath away and have you quickly drooling, choking, crying, and gagging (it's a very strong lachrymator)! Never let silver chloride plus ammonia solutions dry out! Always acidify with HCl before storing.
I've used ammonia to dissolve the silver chloride, then filter and acidify with HCl to precipitate silver chloride that is very clean. The trash, base metal hydroxides, and any solid Rh or Au flakes (if present) end up in the filter. It's a great way to clean up dirty silver cholride. As a rule of thumb silver chloride should never be allowed to dry out or the aqua ammonia will not pentrate the hardened silver chloride unless it is crushed and ground to a fine powder.
Steve
amosfella
Well-known member
Could one avoid breaking the batteries by dissolving the bodies of the batteries in hydrochloric acid??
Juan Manuel Arcos Frank
Well-known member
May be,but the problem is to recover silver.
Adding AR to the batteries instead on nitric acid leads to dissolve the shell and all material inside battery still undissolved,I mean, you can recover the silver/silver oxide pellet but AR forms a silver chloride film on pellet´s surface and this is the problem.. recovering silver from those pellets is a nightmare,they can not be dissolved by nitric acid or any other solvent,if you try to melt them with Na2CO3 be careful because...the pellets explode!!!!!!!.
Probably,if you mill the pellets to face powder,mix well the powder with Na2CO3 and follow Kunda´s patent instructions then you will get fine silver.
Orignally,I was trying AR but these huge explotions took me to switch AR to nitric acid.
Keep us posted about your progress.
Regards.
Manuel
Adding AR to the batteries instead on nitric acid leads to dissolve the shell and all material inside battery still undissolved,I mean, you can recover the silver/silver oxide pellet but AR forms a silver chloride film on pellet´s surface and this is the problem.. recovering silver from those pellets is a nightmare,they can not be dissolved by nitric acid or any other solvent,if you try to melt them with Na2CO3 be careful because...the pellets explode!!!!!!!.
Probably,if you mill the pellets to face powder,mix well the powder with Na2CO3 and follow Kunda´s patent instructions then you will get fine silver.
Orignally,I was trying AR but these huge explotions took me to switch AR to nitric acid.
Keep us posted about your progress.
Regards.
Manuel
amosfella
Well-known member
I had actually meant to just use HCl and dissolve the bodies. Not using AR. And Then the silver should remain undissolved... Would silver oxide dissolve in HCl??
silver oxide will convert to silver chloride, silver chloride will be insoluble in iron chloride solution.
Juan Manuel Arcos Frank
Well-known member
HCl will not dissolve the shell,specially if you have VARTA or RENATA type.
As Butcher pointed out perfectly right,HCl reacts with silver oxide to form silver chloride so you will have the problem that I said before.
Hope it helps.
Regards.
Manuel
As Butcher pointed out perfectly right,HCl reacts with silver oxide to form silver chloride so you will have the problem that I said before.
Hope it helps.
Regards.
Manuel
here is what I might try:
I generate alot of used acid peroxide (copper chloride).
used copper chloride, and the batteries I would smashed to open case (or pierce with a punch) as I would not want any to blow open and cause damage or safety risk.
hotplate, used copper chloride, old coffee pyrex pot, medium heat, with batteries, let reaction heat to thick syrup, adding more copper chloride, till nothing but white powder remains in thick black solution, lower temp pour off liquid(iron chloride, copper chloride) from now copper chloride and silver chloride white powder, now use some green(air bubbled used copper chloride) some new HCl and peroxide and remove copper I chloride white powder into copper II chloride green solution, leaving silver chloride white powder, at end boil in HCl dilute and treat as silver chloride. ---some of these steps are repeated several times).
the copper/Iron chloride thick black liquid is saved, it will dissolve copper easily when heated, changing copper metal to copper I chloride white powder.
I generate alot of used acid peroxide (copper chloride).
used copper chloride, and the batteries I would smashed to open case (or pierce with a punch) as I would not want any to blow open and cause damage or safety risk.
hotplate, used copper chloride, old coffee pyrex pot, medium heat, with batteries, let reaction heat to thick syrup, adding more copper chloride, till nothing but white powder remains in thick black solution, lower temp pour off liquid(iron chloride, copper chloride) from now copper chloride and silver chloride white powder, now use some green(air bubbled used copper chloride) some new HCl and peroxide and remove copper I chloride white powder into copper II chloride green solution, leaving silver chloride white powder, at end boil in HCl dilute and treat as silver chloride. ---some of these steps are repeated several times).
the copper/Iron chloride thick black liquid is saved, it will dissolve copper easily when heated, changing copper metal to copper I chloride white powder.
amosfella
Well-known member
I went through, and corrected the English. I also added a few of the discoveries from my research from the small bag of used batteries that I got from the local jeweler. Those discoveries are highlighted in blue.
Now, something I was thinking about. What about dissolving the battery's shell in dilute sulfuric acid?? Isn't dilute sulfuric not supposed to dissolve silver which would leave the silver and silver oxide on the bottom of the pan, lowering the risk that silver may remain trapped in the battery shell??
I haven't tried this yet, and I thought I'd ask the chemical geniuses here before I tried.
Now, something I was thinking about. What about dissolving the battery's shell in dilute sulfuric acid?? Isn't dilute sulfuric not supposed to dissolve silver which would leave the silver and silver oxide on the bottom of the pan, lowering the risk that silver may remain trapped in the battery shell??
I haven't tried this yet, and I thought I'd ask the chemical geniuses here before I tried.
Juan Manuel Arcos Frank
Well-known member
Amosfella:
I did not try sulphuric acid...may be it works...try with a few batteries and keep us posted.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
I did not try sulphuric acid...may be it works...try with a few batteries and keep us posted.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
Juan,
Thanks for your directions about silver button batteries recycling!
I've started some tests, and I've obtained values varying from 5 to 17,5% of sample weight (mostly 12%). Could you say if you still get about 30 to 35%?
But I have one more question: when adding ammonia, I dissolve silver chloride, leaving mercury chloride, that to me appears brown. In your doc, you said we get a black precipitate. Should I use more ammonia until reach this black precipitate or just search for remaining white clumps?
(I read that silver battery Hg contents are 0,2%, but I obtained much more...)
Thanks again!
Alexandre
Thanks for your directions about silver button batteries recycling!
I've started some tests, and I've obtained values varying from 5 to 17,5% of sample weight (mostly 12%). Could you say if you still get about 30 to 35%?
But I have one more question: when adding ammonia, I dissolve silver chloride, leaving mercury chloride, that to me appears brown. In your doc, you said we get a black precipitate. Should I use more ammonia until reach this black precipitate or just search for remaining white clumps?
(I read that silver battery Hg contents are 0,2%, but I obtained much more...)
Thanks again!
Alexandre
Juan Manuel Arcos Frank
Well-known member
Alexandre:
REANTA batteries have the best silver content,newer batteries have less silver than old ones.
20% in weight is a good value for new batteries.
The brown mud contains a little bit of silver chloride,add a liitle more ammonia.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
REANTA batteries have the best silver content,newer batteries have less silver than old ones.
20% in weight is a good value for new batteries.
The brown mud contains a little bit of silver chloride,add a liitle more ammonia.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
Just out of curiosity Juan what is the concentration of the aqueous ammonia that you use? is it regular unscented household grade or industrial 30% ?
Edit to add*
In the manual that you posted you never mentioned this but what kind of reaction happens to the solution after you add the Nitric acid to the batteries? I just made a small test batch of a little less then Half of what you have mentioned I used 100gr of batteries to just under 500ml of 35% +/- 4% Nitric. An almost immediate colour change of clear to orange occurred the batteries innards were very much exposed and i still waited the 30mins but the solution never changed from the dark orange colour. currently the solution is being passed through a filter
would I be correct in assuming that this colour change is from the metal casing of the batteries?
Thank you
Edit to add*
In the manual that you posted you never mentioned this but what kind of reaction happens to the solution after you add the Nitric acid to the batteries? I just made a small test batch of a little less then Half of what you have mentioned I used 100gr of batteries to just under 500ml of 35% +/- 4% Nitric. An almost immediate colour change of clear to orange occurred the batteries innards were very much exposed and i still waited the 30mins but the solution never changed from the dark orange colour. currently the solution is being passed through a filter
would I be correct in assuming that this colour change is from the metal casing of the batteries?
Thank you
Juan Manuel Arcos Frank
Well-known member
Ian_B:
I used 15 % regular grade solution of ammonia.
Nitric acid is a powerful oxidant,so it takes place an oxidation reaction of all metals in button cells,then oxides are turn into nitrates,wich they are all soluble in water.
Hard to say about where the orange colour comes from,some times rubber seal(specially VARTA batteries) reacts with nitric acid changing solution´s colour.
Do not worry about colour except when you have formed silver chloride,if silver chloride is not white then there is some contamination.What colour is your silver chloride?.
Keep us posted about your progress.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
I used 15 % regular grade solution of ammonia.
Nitric acid is a powerful oxidant,so it takes place an oxidation reaction of all metals in button cells,then oxides are turn into nitrates,wich they are all soluble in water.
Hard to say about where the orange colour comes from,some times rubber seal(specially VARTA batteries) reacts with nitric acid changing solution´s colour.
Do not worry about colour except when you have formed silver chloride,if silver chloride is not white then there is some contamination.What colour is your silver chloride?.
Keep us posted about your progress.
Kindest regards.
Manuel
