Tin as a Collector

[kurtak]

I saw a video of a guy who crushed up Pepto Bismal tablets and used it as a collector metal then cupelled with it and it worked. Do you know if Bismuth cupels easier and faster than lead? Lead cupelling does not work. I have thrown tons of heat and air and fans at the process and it does nothing. Maybe it works for those who have an oxygen torch or special cupelling oven, but the other videos are fake. Im also wondering is there any other metal that would collect the gold out from the lead?

Per the bold print (above quote) - that is quite a bold statement considering lead cupelling as a matter of FACT has been working for THOUSANDS of years

https://www.miningnewsnorth.com/sto...ssay-on-5000-years-of-fire-assaying/7659.html

There is even reference made to it (both literal & figurative) in the old testament of the bible as quoted from the above link --------

Quote - While this question is a fun ponderable, the fact of the matter is, despite being called assay now, expressions of fire assaying can be found in literal and figurative references traced back to the time of Moses and can be found in numerous biblical references.

"Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. " –Numbers 31:22-23; New International Version Bible.



"I have made you an assayer and a tester among My people, The bellows blow fiercely, The lead is consumed by the fire; " –Jeremiah 6:27-32; New American Standard Bible. -end quote

Please note what I highlighted above

& it even goes back further then that according to records found that date as far back as 3,000 years B.C. - again quoted from the above link -------------

Quote - Yet, the first indications of fire assay predate even Moses, with the origins of fire assaying usage being traced to findings in Troy (roughly 2600 B.C.), the Cappadocian Cuneiform Tablets (2250-1950 B.C.), as well as the Amarna letters (1350 B.C.).

With accounts from over 5,000 years ago, historians were able to determine that pure silver was made as early as the 25th century B.C.

Furthermore, from this evidence, it was concluded that the cupellation process and therefore fire assaying, was invented in Asia Minor in the first half of the third millennium B.C., shortly after the discovery of the manufacture of lead from galena.

Historian Theodore Wertime even wrote in 1973 that the first convincing evidence of the production of silver from lead ores is from the cupel buttons found at Mahmatlar in the late third millennium B.C. that now reside in the Hittite Museum in Ankara, Turkey. - end quote

Here again - per the bold print - you see that LEAD cupelling has in FACT been a "working" method since about 3,000 years B. C. --- which means it (lead cupelling) has been a "working" method for the purification of silver for around 5,000 years

In other words - about 5,000 years ago they figured out that cupelling lead - from lead ore - was a method to recover the pure silver found in the lead ore

So the bottom line is that cupelling - to recover precious metals - as a matter of FACT works - & if it is not working for you then clearly you are doing it WRONG

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Wouldn't a electrolitic cell get the gold efficiently

No - in a cell you do not get "complete" parting of the gold from the tin & that is because at the "anode" slims are produced & those "slimes" are going to be made up of mostly tin

In other words - when you run the cell - yes - it deposits pure tin at the cathode - BUT - as the cell runs it produces slimes at the anode (which collect in the anode bag) the gold stays in those slimes BUT also MOST of those slimes are very fine particles of tin that fall off the anode during the running of the cell - so you still have to process those slimes to separate the tin in those slimes from the gold in those slimes

Kurt

 

[Tomcat]

It was a while back that he mentioned something he had seen, probably not on this forum.

But he needs to get some understanding of the concept, because he calls it assaying when it really may be a production method,
not very good as far as I can see.

Smelting without collector metal and raking/pouring off the slag then adding more material until you have a pool of melted metal in the bottom,
hence the name continuum method.
Here is his post: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/the-continuum-method.33748/post-362110

I can't see that working for other than very special cases.

I dont think I will try this as just using 60 grams of material I could see just pouring out any gold in there. I think this may work for heavier amounts. I think he originally said they use this method in the UK. It was on this forum. let me know if anyone tries this though. I'd love to ditch the collector metal method as it is complete #@$%.

 

[Tomcat]

Per the bold print (above quote) - that is quite a bold statement considering lead cupelling as a matter of FACT has been working for THOUSANDS of years

https://www.miningnewsnorth.com/sto...ssay-on-5000-years-of-fire-assaying/7659.html

There is even reference made to it (both literal & figurative) in the old testament of the bible as quoted from the above link --------

Quote - While this question is a fun ponderable, the fact of the matter is, despite being called assay now, expressions of fire assaying can be found in literal and figurative references traced back to the time of Moses and can be found in numerous biblical references.

"Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. " –Numbers 31:22-23; New International Version Bible.



"I have made you an assayer and a tester among My people, The bellows blow fiercely, The lead is consumed by the fire; " –Jeremiah 6:27-32; New American Standard Bible. -end quote

Please note what I highlighted above

& it even goes back further then that according to records found that date as far back as 3,000 years B.C. - again quoted from the above link -------------

Quote - Yet, the first indications of fire assay predate even Moses, with the origins of fire assaying usage being traced to findings in Troy (roughly 2600 B.C.), the Cappadocian Cuneiform Tablets (2250-1950 B.C.), as well as the Amarna letters (1350 B.C.).

With accounts from over 5,000 years ago, historians were able to determine that pure silver was made as early as the 25th century B.C.

Furthermore, from this evidence, it was concluded that the cupellation process and therefore fire assaying, was invented in Asia Minor in the first half of the third millennium B.C., shortly after the discovery of the manufacture of lead from galena.

Historian Theodore Wertime even wrote in 1973 that the first convincing evidence of the production of silver from lead ores is from the cupel buttons found at Mahmatlar in the late third millennium B.C. that now reside in the Hittite Museum in Ankara, Turkey. - end quote

Here again - per the bold print - you see that LEAD cupelling has in FACT been a "working" method since about 3,000 years B. C. --- which means it (lead cupelling) has been a "working" method for the purification of silver for around 5,000 years

In other words - about 5,000 years ago they figured out that cupelling lead - from lead ore - was a method to recover the pure silver found in the lead ore

So the bottom line is that cupelling - to recover precious metals - as a matter of FACT works - & if it is not working for you then clearly you are doing it WRONG

Kurt

Post a video then we'd love to see you cupeling.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I dont think I will try this as just using 60 grams of material I could see just pouring out any gold in there. I think this may work for heavier amounts. I think he originally said they use this method in the UK. It was on this forum. let me know if anyone tries this though. I'd love to ditch the collector metal method as it is complete #@$%.

Do you have a link for this?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Post a video then we'd love to see you cupeling.

What is it with these video requests?
I find a proper detailed description much easier to interpret.
Nothing left to the imagination, nothing missed or assumed to be there.

Here is a link by the way and no I have not seen it.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QtwJ6BAgPEAI&usg=AOvVaw2-xYVXzZZULGytd13ZNbOw

 

[slsmp40]

Post video as proof cupeling works for you.. Anyone can say it works. If it becomes lead in the process then whats the difference if you use lead?

Divided in smaller pieces so it has a greater surface area. It also insures that the environment is a reducing one. I don’t video anything or have to prove anything to you. Cupelling is an age old practice and it works. You just need an oxidizing environment to do it. You understand? Reducing environment you get lead metal and it collects, then oxidizing environment and it goes away. Anyone can say it doesn’t work, but in this case you are just doing it wrong. BTW a video would not prove my success, but it you stop and think about it for a moment maybe you will have some success.

 

[Tomcat]

What is it with these video requests?
I find a proper detailed description much easier to interpret.
Nothing left to the imagination, nothing missed or assumed to be there.

Here is a link by the way and no I have not seen it.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwDfUxgNxeA&ved=2ahUKEwiMtdHN8MGFAxXPJhAIHUjbCGUQtwJ6BAgPEAI&usg=AOvVaw2-xYVXzZZULGytd13ZNbOw

Because you know you cant do it because it wont work.

 

[Tomcat]

Do you have a link for this?

No, but I only know about it because I read it on here.

 

[Tomcat]

Per the bold print (above quote) - that is quite a bold statement considering lead cupelling as a matter of FACT has been working for THOUSANDS of years

https://www.miningnewsnorth.com/sto...ssay-on-5000-years-of-fire-assaying/7659.html

There is even reference made to it (both literal & figurative) in the old testament of the bible as quoted from the above link --------

Quote - While this question is a fun ponderable, the fact of the matter is, despite being called assay now, expressions of fire assaying can be found in literal and figurative references traced back to the time of Moses and can be found in numerous biblical references.

"Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. " –Numbers 31:22-23; New International Version Bible.



"I have made you an assayer and a tester among My people, The bellows blow fiercely, The lead is consumed by the fire; " –Jeremiah 6:27-32; New American Standard Bible. -end quote

Please note what I highlighted above

& it even goes back further then that according to records found that date as far back as 3,000 years B.C. - again quoted from the above link -------------

Quote - Yet, the first indications of fire assay predate even Moses, with the origins of fire assaying usage being traced to findings in Troy (roughly 2600 B.C.), the Cappadocian Cuneiform Tablets (2250-1950 B.C.), as well as the Amarna letters (1350 B.C.).

With accounts from over 5,000 years ago, historians were able to determine that pure silver was made as early as the 25th century B.C.

Furthermore, from this evidence, it was concluded that the cupellation process and therefore fire assaying, was invented in Asia Minor in the first half of the third millennium B.C., shortly after the discovery of the manufacture of lead from galena.

Historian Theodore Wertime even wrote in 1973 that the first convincing evidence of the production of silver from lead ores is from the cupel buttons found at Mahmatlar in the late third millennium B.C. that now reside in the Hittite Museum in Ankara, Turkey. - end quote

Here again - per the bold print - you see that LEAD cupelling has in FACT been a "working" method since about 3,000 years B. C. --- which means it (lead cupelling) has been a "working" method for the purification of silver for around 5,000 years

In other words - about 5,000 years ago they figured out that cupelling lead - from lead ore - was a method to recover the pure silver found in the lead ore

So the bottom line is that cupelling - to recover precious metals - as a matter of FACT works - & if it is not working for you then clearly you are doing it WRONG

Kurt

Yeah so they were lead cupeling not "litharge."

 

[Yggdrasil]

Because you know you cant do it because it wont work.

They have been cupelling since before the Egyptians, and yes the actual cupelling part is done with Lead.
But before that, to get a lead button to soak up and alloy with the precious metals they use Litharge.

And I do not do any cupelling since I do not treat ores, E-waste only so I have no need for it.
Now go and study so maybe you can increase your knowledge enough to manage to do it.
Sorry to be so blunt but your kind of stubbornness do not fly well with me now.

If you press on this way your stay may be short.

 

[Darkthirty]

No, but I only know about it because I read it on here.

MBMM has numerous cupelling videos. Educate yourself before making inane comments.

 

[Tomcat]

Start studying mate.
It has been used for millennium so it works.
I do not treat ores so I have no need for it.
It has to have plenty of Oxygen so no reducing flame can be used and it need to have the correct stable temperature for sufficient time.
That is why they usually use electric kilns for it today.

been there done that. get off the sofa and start doing and quit reading about it. its the only way you are going to understand this stuff.

 

[Yggdrasil]

been there done that. get off the sofa and start doing and quit reading about it. its the only way you are going to understand this stuff.

Did you look at MBMM's videos or the one I sent link to?
I have no need for cupelling nor a set up for it.
I do hydrometallurgy only.

Now start studying!

 

[Shark]

been there done that. get off the sofa and start doing and quit reading about it. its the only way you are going to understand this stuff.

While I like the visual learning aspect, that statement is just wrong. The only way you will understand this stuff is by studying and then studying some more. By your statement becoming a nuclear physicist is as easy as “just doing it”. Study some more and maybe you can learn more of the cupel science. It is the only way to understand it. The visual side is for applying what you learn from studying.

 

[Tomcat]

While I like the visual learning aspect, that statement is just wrong. The only way you will understand this stuff is by studying and then studying some more. By your statement becoming a nuclear physicist is as easy as “just doing it”. Study some more and maybe you can learn more of the cupel science. It is the only way to understand it. The visual side is for applying what you learn from studying.

Then show us all how its done then because reading about it doesnt make it happen. Its not magic or book science. And so your statement is false. And yes, you can study nuclear science all you want but your fist day on the job you are not going to know what the hell you are doing or talking about. The other scientists will be laughing beh+ind your back.

 

[Tomcat]

Did you look at MBMM's videos or the one I sent link to?
I have no need for cupelling nor a set up for it.
I do hydrometallurgy only.

Now start studying!

I knew all that stuff already. Now get in the lab. Hydrometallurgy........

 

[sinnegam]

Tomcat is trolling with rage-bait. Please stop feeding the troll.

EDIT for explanation: He is just saying things to cause an argument, and make people unhappy. There are plenty of articles and videos showing cupelling in great detail. He is enjoying making people unhappy.

 

[Tomcat]

Says "The King of the Trolls." Coming from you that doesnt say much.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I knew all that stuff already. Now get in the lab. Hydrometallurgy........

Now you have earned a break.
YOU are the one not managing to do what has been done for millennia, not us.
So I will give you a 5 day break to study and try.

So now go study!!!