Processing MLCC's

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Except for using the solid nitrate salt. Dissolved calcium will come down with the addition of any kind of sulfate or sulfuric acid as calcium sulfate. Dropping gold from a solution with dissolved calcium is nearly impossible with SMB. The calcium will rob the solution of the SO2 while forming calcium sulfate.
I am aware of this fact, but we talked the use of aforementioned preparation of kinda "nitric acid" for leaching MLCCs. There is no gold, no need for SMB to be used, and when nitrosulfuric acid was used instead - there would be all the sulfates used.

My point was just an "maybe" opportunity - if you can source calcium nitrate, you can get rid of bulk sulfate beforehand and you do not need to unnecessarilly pass it from stage to stage in solution. To end up in different waste bucket, because of that sulfate content.

With calcium in solution, I rather prefer to pre-concentrate gold by cementation on copper. To be honest, I am completely turning to this route with every material that I process. De-noxing and dropping the gold quantitatively from low Au AR solutions. Easy, quick, gold cemented is readily coagulated upon few dozen minutes on hotplate (solution after AR dissolution is already hot), no noxious SO2 in the early stage and no excess SO2 transferred to the waste bucket :) In exchange for additional 20-50g of copper eaten to waste for batch. Doesn´t add much trouble, easen the work.
 
If you reread Orvis post you will see that, that was his point. ;)
Some people makes AR using a solid nitrate. It's different than distilling nitric acid. It does work well for distilling nitric acid, while using the solid salt for AR can cause issues with the calcium. It's the nature of how it's used whether it poses an issue or not.
 
When using garden fertilizers (like 15-0-0 or 20-0-0 etc.) to make PMN (Poor Mans Nitric) there is a (good) "potential" for PMN to have chlorides in the resulting nitric

That is because chlorides can be part of what makes up the rest of the fertilizer - fillers &/or ingredients used to "time release" the nitrogen into the soil

That is why in the MANY discussions on this forum PMN is not recommended for dissolving silver

As we know --- HNO3 + Ag + Cl = AgCl --- (& therefore PMN is not a good choice for leaching MLCCs)

Also as we know --- HNO3 + Cl = AR

Therefore using PMN to dissolve base metals & there is also gold present (like gold plated fingers/pins) there is the potential for the PMN to also dissolve gold

Here are a couple threads where this has been discussed before

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/costs-of-chemicals.1274/#post-10835
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-disolving-in-nitric.1116/#post-9323
Quotes from those threads

Depending on the quality of the fertilizer grade Sodium Nitrate, it will contain a small amount of Sodium Chloride.
NaCL+HNO3=AR.

I quit using it as the Gold around here is so fine it goes into solution in poor man's Nitric.

Bummer.
15-0-0 has less Nitrogen, meaning less Nitrate. The rest is probably chlorides or sufates. If you're just making poor mans' AR for a first digestion, it's no big deal. If you want to dissolve Silver with Nitric Acid, then the chloride content is a big deal because its' going to cause the Silver to passivate with AgCl or precipitate out as AgCl.

Use some common sense when deciding what reagents to use.

For what it is worth

Kurt
 
Here is another interesting quote from the "cost of chemicals" thread (link) in my last post
I use Ammonium Nitrate as a starting chemical because it is made from natural gas and is very pure compared with other tecncal grade sources. I use it to generate Ammonia and the resulting calcium Nitrate reacts with Sulfuric Acid with Calcium Sulfate precipitating out.
As lasersteve pointed out on another thread, the mash will have to be distilled to get all the Nitric but it is very concentrated and pure, so if you're needing a chloride free Nitric, it's a reasonable way to go, otherwise you have to shell out good money for reagent grade acid.

Ammonium Nitrate is cheap and avalable around the World, even in fairly remote areas. I had to special order mine and did get some raised eyebrows, but as long as you're not breaking any laws, there's no reason you can't get it.

Kurt
 
When using garden fertilizers (like 15-0-0 or 20-0-0 etc.) to make PMN (Poor Mans Nitric) there is a (good) "potential" for PMN to have chlorides in the resulting nitric

That is because chlorides can be part of what makes up the rest of the fertilizer - fillers &/or ingredients used to "time release" the nitrogen into the soil

That is why in the MANY discussions on this forum PMN is not recommended for dissolving silver

As we know --- HNO3 + Ag + Cl = AgCl --- (& therefore PMN is not a good choice for leaching MLCCs)

Also as we know --- HNO3 + Cl = AR

Therefore using PMN to dissolve base metals & there is also gold present (like gold plated fingers/pins) there is the potential for the PMN to also dissolve gold

Here are a couple threads where this has been discussed before

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/costs-of-chemicals.1274/#post-10835
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-disolving-in-nitric.1116/#post-9323
Quotes from those threads




For what it is worth

Kurt
With ordinary fertilizers, you can be practically sure that they contain chlorides. Salts used are practically speaking tech grade, without any specs, only for heavy metals and dangerous stuff. I do not recommend these.

But despite the fact that there can be countries, where selling ammonium nitrate is somehow prohibited due to concerns about making explosives... It is fairly easy to source and get in bulk for cheap. Here lowest ammount in gardening store is 5kg bag for like 5-10 euros, depending on brand. However, most of the times, it is mixed with something to deter it´s use in clandestine chemistry. Here, most common additive is dolomite, around several %, which also help to granulate the material, which is then less prone to caking.

Easy treatment is to dissolve the stuff in minimal water, filter the dolomite and evaporate down the water, leaving practically pure salt. Conveniently done in oven at like 150-200°C. This will remove practically all water, without any significant decomposition. If you have any doubts about purity, you can always let the solution crystallize and harvest the crystals.

As a teenager, I used it for making smoke bombs, regularly drying it in our kitchen oven... Not wise, now I won´t do it this way on any circumstances. But I was 15 yo, and heavily into pyrotechnics :D Nobody got injured or anything vaporized or messed with it (oven). So some old kitchen oven (not gas one) would be ideal.
Here is another interesting quote from the "cost of chemicals" thread (link) in my last post


Kurt
To the Irons quotation, yes. Obtaining the nitric from the "mash" is sometimes tedious, when distilling. Letting the cake in the flask cool, adding little additional water, breaking the lump in fewer smaller pieces and repeating the distillation can help to squeeze some extra nitric as diluted solution. Most of the times, you will dilute it anyway... Without water addition at the start, distillation is producing very strong nitric acid (over 90% usually), which is very dangerous and nasty oxidizing agent. Also, much more decomposition to NOxes occur.
 
So I'm doing a test batch of magnetic mlccs. 20 grams. From the videos I've watched I always seen them using HCL first then rinse *1000! Then nitric. And distilled water. Then drops silver chloride with HCL. But I'm not sure I'm ready to mess with and Pd (although it hurts a little to just pass up any precious metals).😵 Since I'm not worried about the Pd, for not at least, shouldn't I just nitric leech and be done? Second reason being I'm almost certain that my 1kg or 2kg of mlccs will be(90%+/-) predominantly magnetic which from my research holds very little if, any Pd within them. So maybe just do nitric leech on all my magnetic and then research and educate myself on Pd recovery and one day hopefully I can recover it?
 

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So I'm doing a test batch of magnetic mlccs. 20 grams. From the videos I've watched I always seen them using HCL first then rinse *1000! Then nitric. And distilled water. Then drops silver chloride with HCL. But I'm not sure I'm ready to mess with and Pd (although it hurts a little to just pass up any precious metals).😵 Since I'm not worried about the Pd, for not at least, shouldn't I just nitric leech and be done? Second reason being I'm almost certain that my 1kg or 2kg of mlccs will be(90%+/-) predominantly magnetic which from my research holds very little if, any Pd within them. So maybe just do nitric leech on all my magnetic and then research and educate myself on Pd recovery and one day hopefully I can recover it?
The magnetic ones will most likely be Nickel only.
On the other hand it is probably best to process by smelting not chemically.
Orvi had a nice post a few days ago, read that before you make up your mind.
 
Wow the ceramic from these mlccs are really no joke. For it's a real problem. So much rinsing. Smelting I suppose is the way in this one but where do I even start on researching it? For I know even less then I did with the chemistry portion of this work.
 
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