Platinum on dinner plates

[924T]

I've searched the forum and the internet, and found nothing so far about stripping Platinum
from dinner plates, cups, saucers, etc.

Has anybody on the forum done this before?

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Lou]

waste of time

 

[924T]

Drat.

Double drat.

I'm going to do it anyway, having more to do with making a social statement on this end than with
time+cost -vs- return.

Additional research showed that HCl+Cl should get the job done.

Is it necessary to soak the china in water to prevent absorption of the HCl+Cl by the china?

I'm just hoping that 8 place settings of these Pickard "Nocturne" Pt-rimmed beauties, plus
auxilliary platters, gravy bowls, etc. will yield enough to register on my inexpensive scale (.1g rated).

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Claudie]

I stripped some Gold from old glassware and plates once. The yield is extremely low, they can plate that stuff amazingly thin. :shock:

 

[Pantherlikher]

Having done thousands of gold rimmed glassware. The amount you have probably wont even register on a test.

I get the glass for free so I collect and then spend a few days washing the gold off.
Reminded me it's about time to get washing again as I've collected all winter and have a shed almost full of boxes of glassware.

B.S.

 

[GotTheBug]

Side thought, what about AR on a paper towel to wipe the plating off, and toss them into the filter pile for later incineration et al?

 

[Anonymous]

Come on 924T - four good guys on this forum tell you not to bother and still ypou say "I'm gonna do it." Seriously mate- you could make more going to a junk fair.

 

[Harold_V]

Come on 924T - four good guys on this forum tell you not to bother and still ypou say "I'm gonna do it." Seriously mate- you could make more going to a junk fair.

That's not the point. Processing such material offers good learning experiences.
Education isn't free. It comes with a price---with the attempt to extract the platinum being a small price to pay to experience how platinum behaves.

My attitude? Do it for the experience. That, in and of itself, will provide the knowledge to process similar material in the future, and the wisdom to decide if it should, or should not be processed.

Harold

 

[924T]

Howdy, all!

Hey, all advice presented so far is very solid, and appreciated!

This will have nothing to do with market value, and I'm aware the rediculously small amount of Pt
that would come off the dinnerware very well might not even be recognized by my scale.

But, as I said, this is very much about making a social statement (translation: relationship statement)
here locally,

and there are enough pieces of the "Nocturne" china that I'll be able to experiment with several
different processes for the experience of it.

This won't happen for at least a month, but I'll shoot some pictures and post them; perhaps they
would be of either interest or actual help to some GRF members.

AR on a paper towel is something I wouldn't have thought of, and I think it's worth trying.

If this were for profit, yes, a garage sale, flea market table, something like that would be
logarithmically better.

More opinions, ideas-----------they're all welcome, and I look forward to hearing them!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[solar_plasma]

Maybe this thread can be a guidance (if platinum paint has some parallels with gold paint):

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=857&start=40

The towel method seems a way to go. I would expose the china to the HCl/Cl vapors in a closed box first. This will soften the paint, - this was at least, what I experienced with gold.

 

[Lou]

Come on 924T - four good guys on this forum tell you not to bother and still ypou say "I'm gonna do it." Seriously mate- you could make more going to a junk fair.

That's not the point. Processing such material offers good learning experiences.
Education isn't free. It comes with a price---with the attempt to extract the platinum being a small price to pay to experience how platinum behaves.

My attitude? Do it for the experience. That, in and of itself, will provide the knowledge to process similar material in the future, and the wisdom to decide if it should, or should not be processed.

Harold

I should, perhaps, be much more clear: I heartily advise against doing this lot for the experience--not only is there no net economic return, there are the following reasons:

1. Large amounts of dilute Pt(IV) solution create a contamination hazard
2. Gross excess of chemical needed for very small yield.
3. Limited contaminants present mean there's not much to separate any Pt from so little utility is gained

Much rather, start with some jewelry findings or a ring and beat it flat. Then you can learn about how difficult it is to dissolve, and learn the more complicated task of separating it from iridium. It also gives more concentrated solution that is easier to work with.

 

[Harold_V]

Come on 924T - four good guys on this forum tell you not to bother and still ypou say "I'm gonna do it." Seriously mate- you could make more going to a junk fair.

That's not the point. Processing such material offers good learning experiences.
Education isn't free. It comes with a price---with the attempt to extract the platinum being a small price to pay to experience how platinum behaves.

My attitude? Do it for the experience. That, in and of itself, will provide the knowledge to process similar material in the future, and the wisdom to decide if it should, or should not be processed.

Harold

I should, perhaps, be much more clear: I heartily advise against doing this lot for the experience--not only is there no net economic return, there are the following reasons:

1. Large amounts of dilute Pt(IV) solution create a contamination hazard
2. Gross excess of chemical needed for very small yield.
3. Limited contaminants present mean there's not much to separate any Pt from so little utility is gained

Much rather, start with some jewelry findings or a ring and beat it flat. Then you can learn about how difficult it is to dissolve, and learn the more complicated task of separating it from iridium. It also gives more concentrated solution that is easier to work with.

I still maintain it should be done, assuming one has the desire. While I didn't make the point specifically, here's why: "and the wisdom to decide if it should, or should not be processed."

My logic is that many, in life, learn thing only from the school of hard knocks. As an example, try telling someone how difficult it is to dissolve platinum in AR. I used to make my standard solution by dissolving a short piece of platinum wire. It never ceased to amaze me how long it took to get it dissolved, even heated.

So long as an operation doesn't offer risk of harm to one's body, or to the environment, it's never a bad idea to have one experience, as one learns more than enough from experiences that fail. In fact, failure tends to be a better teacher than does success.

Example?

I have NO memory of the countless number of times I poured nitric to a beaker, but I still vividly remember the one time when I poured, to have a solitary drop of acid pop out of the beaker, hitting me in the right eye.

Education is not free. All should conduct experiments (safely), as part of learning. One of the things that can, and will be learned, is what to not do again. That was my point.

Harold

Edit:
One of the things I've learned in my many years of moderating is that some readers do not seek advice. What they seek is approval, so no amount of information is going to be of benefit to them. What they hope to read when posting is confirmation that their idea is acceptable, so they tend to reject anything that is contrary to what they wish to hear. They must learn for themselves that what they propose is not a good idea. What better way than to do the experiment, so they have the information first hand?

 

[Shark]

I tend to be one of those that does things for the experience, and not necessarily for the monetary value. I know gold plated glass ware isn't worth it, but I do them because people keep giving them to me. I have done a lot of small gold runs that would fail the value in money, but I learned a lot of the hands on by doing them. I tried to have as much information on hand ahead of time before attempting them. If I wanted to try platinum I would have to buy something to work with and I don't care to do that right now. All of my experiences have been with things I had on hand, and mainly from other people's trash. So long as one is prepared to deal with the wastes and failures as well as the success, experience can be a good teacher. If I had a platinum plate, and the chemicals, and a lot more study on working with platinum, I would be one of those trying it on a small scale. What I am not quite understanding is what exactly 924T is trying to accomplish. The only person to impress is one's self, done right it will take care of impressing others. What kind of "social statement" would be a cause for trying to accomplish something like this? If I were doing it, I would do it for my self benefit, social standing would the last thing I would be thinking of.

Got the bug,
I like that response of using a paper towel. I might have to try that on some of these gold plated glasses I have on hand. At most, I might learn if it works or not.

 

[924T]

Shark,

It appears there is a better than 50% chance my marital status will be changing in the next few months,
and if so, the china goes with me, so I will have it on hand. It's either take the Pt off chemically,
or borrow a 12-guage and have somebody stand to the side and behind me a bit and toss those suckers
so I can blow them to smithereens (a variant of sporting clays, if you will).

I really do want to find out if HCl+Cl will get the Pt off, so I'm going to do it.
The concept of AR on a paper towel is amazing to me, and I sure wouldn't have to mix much up
to try it, so I intend to try that as well, just to see what happens.

Nitric + paper = Nitrocellulose. AR + paper = ?

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Shark]

Didn't mean to pry into anything personal, I just took your definition of "social standing" a bit differently. In your shoes, I would take one or the other of your positions on dealing with the plates. It would be a tough decision to make, i just never was much good at shooting clays. Then again a plate is somewhat bigger. I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Lou]

Maybe try glasswool instead of paper towels, which will slowly degrade in AR.

 

[justinhcase]

When I ran several dinner services to test,I found that I barley had enough to test for.
It was like oil on water you can get it off easily enough but when you look at the returns for a day's effort and chemicals you will find you only have enough to get your beaker dirty. Much better to spend the day working for cash and buy some scrap at auction as you will have a nice little lump after refining.
For your china particularly if it is gilded there are a lot of company's like http://www.chinafinders.com that will buy the hole lot up for a better return than you will ever get from the decoration.People are always short a plate or cup so pay a premium to keep there set complete.
The glass wool is a fantastic idea and I will try it if I ever have a lager surface aria to strip of plaiting.
P.S. I wish that I had taken note of Lou signature line sooner, I found Rhodium and it took me a week to work it out.LOL

 

[924T]

Shark,

No problem.

The 12-guage bit is an inspiration based on a "Big Bang Theory" episode, which I thought was hilarious.

Lou,

Awesome idea, dude (a compliment, Big Lebowski style)! That's putting GotTheBug's idea on steroids.

justinhcase,

Hey, thanks for that link-----I'll follow up on it----my prior research had only turned up outfits that would
take the china on consignment.

If it turns out they actually buy the stuff, I'll still keep a couple of pieces for chemical experimentation,
and possible steel pellet form factor modification.

Many thanks guys------you are what make the GRF such a great place to be!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[solar_plasma]

Please calculate the areal/gramm of platinum yield, when you start your experiments.

By the way, when I did my researches on china gold plate, I read, that sometimes rhodium is used as primer. Probably microscopic amounts. When the gold dissolved, I found that some pieces still had a very slight discoloration.

 

[Lou]

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm telling you, some bird shot would be more satisfying, and actually probably cheaper than trying to get the Pt off of these dinner plates, especially given the marital situation.

Though one time I did get a bottle of Hanovia bright Au (think of a piney smelling dip) that had a couple grams in it when I incinerated it. They probably make a platinum version that's good.