yes
Issues with GEO
- Thread starter poudouche
- Start date
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the issue is not resolved
almost 3 weeks
no solution
9 months
no processed materials returned
no materials returned
value of materials : $ 3500
Hi Snoman701
After this post :
almost 3 weeks
no solution
9 months
no processed materials returned
no materials returned
value of materials : $ 3500
do you still believe it is a character assassination
How would you qualify this behavior from GEO
regards
Poudouche
I think a tempered statement from you requesting help goes further in the process than starting out by breathing fire, no matter how angry you are. I also happened to know that Geo had faced some difficult times personally. So yes, I still stand by my post asking that you act as an adult.
I think that him responding to you publicly, then failing to follow speaks for itself. I am sorry that Geo has failed to send your material back to you.
This is my final contribution to this thread.
I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
I think that him responding to you publicly, then failing to follow speaks for itself. I am sorry that Geo has failed to send your material back to you.
This is my final contribution to this thread.
I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
Martijn
Well-known member
We have been informed about the risk of dealing with hobbyist refiners, and have taken note. Thank you for informing us.
This particular refiner has said he will not toll refine anymore due to several reasons, and that is case closed for us. (right?)
it will remain a 'he said, i said' situation, which remains something between the two of you.
Hydrometallurgy is one of them.
Each material needs to be investigated before first treatment and needs different approaches.
Again, you cont(r)acted a hobbyist, for your reasons.
You could have sold the material to a professional refiner or scrapyard, and possibly made less than the actual pm content, but received your profit right there.
I stand by my statement: you crossed a line that I would consider to far. Geo has responded in a civilized and polite way and even publicly.
To repeat his last comment:
I expect your demand not be on top of his priorities. Go and pick it up, shake the mans hand. Be done with it.
My condolances for your loss, GEO. I hope you and you family can find some peace of mind and keep moving on.
Martijn.
This particular refiner has said he will not toll refine anymore due to several reasons, and that is case closed for us. (right?)
it will remain a 'he said, i said' situation, which remains something between the two of you.
Indicating to me there are other factors at play here. We can not, and (me personally) do not want to, know all that has been said or if anything you or Geo claim to have said is actually said. Some things can seem very simple when you can't grasp the complexity of things.
Hydrometallurgy is one of them.
Each material needs to be investigated before first treatment and needs different approaches.
Again, you cont(r)acted a hobbyist, for your reasons.
You could have sold the material to a professional refiner or scrapyard, and possibly made less than the actual pm content, but received your profit right there.
I stand by my statement: you crossed a line that I would consider to far. Geo has responded in a civilized and polite way and even publicly.
To repeat his last comment:
The man just lost his wife. I would not know if would have the energy to do anything for a period of a year or five.
I expect your demand not be on top of his priorities. Go and pick it up, shake the mans hand. Be done with it.
My condolances for your loss, GEO. I hope you and you family can find some peace of mind and keep moving on.
Martijn.
thank you for your contribution
ju
just be patient and wait 5 years
kurtak
Well-known member
Ok - time for an update on this issue
I as well as a couple other members have been looking into this matter through emails, phone calls & PMs & the fact of the matter is that Geo has flat out ripped Ludo (poudouche's real name) off for the materials Ludo sent Geo to refine & Geo has been lying to the members of this forum in an effort to cover up this fact that he (Geo) has ripped Ludo off
Taking into consideration that Geo lost his wife (because such an event can send a man into a deep dark depression where he can't sleep at night & just can't find the energy to do things needing done day to day) I & two other members have through emails & PMs to Geo offered to help Geo
One member that lives close to Geo (about an hour & half away) offered to go help Geo get Ludo's stuff repackaged & weighed & ready for return shipping to Ludo & I offered to send this member the money needed to pay for the gas & motel (if needed) for this member to go help Geo
Another member offered to send Geo the money needed to pay for returning the stuff back to Ludo (even though Ludo has said multiple times that he would pay return shipping)
Geo completely ignored those offers for help - not even a message back saying thank you for the offer(s) to help but I am working on this & have it handled --- this includes not only ignoring our attempts to help Geo but also the multiple & on going attempts by Ludo to pay Geo for returning his (Ludo's) stuff
However - this is all a deceptive lie on Geo's part - whether it be his claim to return the stuff to Ludo - or his flat out attempts to just ignore the issue in the hope it will just go away --- & how do we know this is all a deceptive lie
Because Geo can not possibly return the materials to Ludo & that is because Geo has already processed Ludo's stuff (&/or at least started the process)
And how do we know that is true ?
Because Geo actually posted this to the forum in a response to this issue - but - there is a problem here because that response from Geo (that he is/was processing Ludo's stuff) got deleted/edited out of the original posting about this issue - so is no longer available to be seen here on the open forum
However - this issue has not just been being discussed here on the open forum but has also been being discussed through PMs & Geo's first response to this to issue (which has now been deleted/edited out of open forum discussion) was also copied to & saved in some of the PM discussion
So here are Geo's own words - in his first response to this issue - here on the forum -------------
Quote; - I have been working on Ludo's refine. It was whole ram sticks. I process these by using CuCl2 to both liberate the chips and the gold foils from the fingers. There was a smaller portion of misc. boards such as cell phone boards and small peripheral boards. These had to depopulated differently as they have steel RF shielding which destroys the solution and takes much longer. The chips seems to be liberated, mostly, but not all the fingers are liberated. I've added fresh acid and expect the recovery to be complete shortly.
I apologize to Ludo and everyone else that this has effected. In my defense, I don't come to the forum every day like I used to. I wasn't trying to avoid anyone. Sorry. - end quote
So - there is no way that Geo can return the stuff to Ludo & for that matter for Ludo to just come pick the stuff up as he (Geo) now claims --- and - though there is no proof of this - is what Geo said (above quote) just another excuse to put this off in the hopes it will just go away - or has he actually completed the refine & taken the money & run ???
And one more thing - in Ludo's attempt to resolve this issue Geo told Ludo a couple different stories - (1) I have to deal with family issues so will be gone for the month of June but will get back to finishing the refine July 1st --- (2) I am going on a honeymoon with my new wife but will get back to finishing your refine when I get back from the honeymoon
As well - another member got an email from Geo's new girlfriend introducing herself as Geo's fiancée
My point being - this excuse being used by Geo that - "I just lost my wife so having a hard time dealing with that" - is just another B.S. excuse as he has clearly moved on from that
So the bottom line here is that Geo has no intent to send Ludo back his stuff nor can Ludo just go & get it (as Geo claims) because by his own admission Geo has "at least" started to process the stuff - and - though there is no proof of this - there is a very real possibility that Geo has completed the refine - sold the gold & spent the money
Now I know that there is nothing that we as members can actually do to resolve an issue like this - other then to allow a member that feels they have been wronged to voice that wrong as well as the opportunity for the accused to provide a defense &/or show resolution (or not) so that members can be made aware of whether - or not - to do business with a particular member
Sadly - in this case - it appears that Geo - by his own response & actions (or lack thereof) has tarnished his own reputation with lies & excuses
So - at this point - Geo & only Geo can restore his good reputation by sending Ludo $3,500 in gold/silver/palladium or $3,500 cash (being as we now know that Geo can no long return Ludo's stuff)
Anything short of that means that Geo has in fact ripped Ludo off with no intent to resolve the issue he has created for himself
Plain & simple - Geo OWES Ludo - but then maybe Geo just does not care because as Geo has said - "I don't come here to the forum much anymore"
Kurt
I as well as a couple other members have been looking into this matter through emails, phone calls & PMs & the fact of the matter is that Geo has flat out ripped Ludo (poudouche's real name) off for the materials Ludo sent Geo to refine & Geo has been lying to the members of this forum in an effort to cover up this fact that he (Geo) has ripped Ludo off
Taking into consideration that Geo lost his wife (because such an event can send a man into a deep dark depression where he can't sleep at night & just can't find the energy to do things needing done day to day) I & two other members have through emails & PMs to Geo offered to help Geo
One member that lives close to Geo (about an hour & half away) offered to go help Geo get Ludo's stuff repackaged & weighed & ready for return shipping to Ludo & I offered to send this member the money needed to pay for the gas & motel (if needed) for this member to go help Geo
Another member offered to send Geo the money needed to pay for returning the stuff back to Ludo (even though Ludo has said multiple times that he would pay return shipping)
Geo completely ignored those offers for help - not even a message back saying thank you for the offer(s) to help but I am working on this & have it handled --- this includes not only ignoring our attempts to help Geo but also the multiple & on going attempts by Ludo to pay Geo for returning his (Ludo's) stuff
However - this is all a deceptive lie on Geo's part - whether it be his claim to return the stuff to Ludo - or his flat out attempts to just ignore the issue in the hope it will just go away --- & how do we know this is all a deceptive lie
Because Geo can not possibly return the materials to Ludo & that is because Geo has already processed Ludo's stuff (&/or at least started the process)
And how do we know that is true ?
Because Geo actually posted this to the forum in a response to this issue - but - there is a problem here because that response from Geo (that he is/was processing Ludo's stuff) got deleted/edited out of the original posting about this issue - so is no longer available to be seen here on the open forum
However - this issue has not just been being discussed here on the open forum but has also been being discussed through PMs & Geo's first response to this to issue (which has now been deleted/edited out of open forum discussion) was also copied to & saved in some of the PM discussion
So here are Geo's own words - in his first response to this issue - here on the forum -------------
Quote; - I have been working on Ludo's refine. It was whole ram sticks. I process these by using CuCl2 to both liberate the chips and the gold foils from the fingers. There was a smaller portion of misc. boards such as cell phone boards and small peripheral boards. These had to depopulated differently as they have steel RF shielding which destroys the solution and takes much longer. The chips seems to be liberated, mostly, but not all the fingers are liberated. I've added fresh acid and expect the recovery to be complete shortly.
I apologize to Ludo and everyone else that this has effected. In my defense, I don't come to the forum every day like I used to. I wasn't trying to avoid anyone. Sorry. - end quote
So - there is no way that Geo can return the stuff to Ludo & for that matter for Ludo to just come pick the stuff up as he (Geo) now claims --- and - though there is no proof of this - is what Geo said (above quote) just another excuse to put this off in the hopes it will just go away - or has he actually completed the refine & taken the money & run ???
And one more thing - in Ludo's attempt to resolve this issue Geo told Ludo a couple different stories - (1) I have to deal with family issues so will be gone for the month of June but will get back to finishing the refine July 1st --- (2) I am going on a honeymoon with my new wife but will get back to finishing your refine when I get back from the honeymoon
As well - another member got an email from Geo's new girlfriend introducing herself as Geo's fiancée
My point being - this excuse being used by Geo that - "I just lost my wife so having a hard time dealing with that" - is just another B.S. excuse as he has clearly moved on from that
So the bottom line here is that Geo has no intent to send Ludo back his stuff nor can Ludo just go & get it (as Geo claims) because by his own admission Geo has "at least" started to process the stuff - and - though there is no proof of this - there is a very real possibility that Geo has completed the refine - sold the gold & spent the money
Now I know that there is nothing that we as members can actually do to resolve an issue like this - other then to allow a member that feels they have been wronged to voice that wrong as well as the opportunity for the accused to provide a defense &/or show resolution (or not) so that members can be made aware of whether - or not - to do business with a particular member
Sadly - in this case - it appears that Geo - by his own response & actions (or lack thereof) has tarnished his own reputation with lies & excuses
So - at this point - Geo & only Geo can restore his good reputation by sending Ludo $3,500 in gold/silver/palladium or $3,500 cash (being as we now know that Geo can no long return Ludo's stuff)
Anything short of that means that Geo has in fact ripped Ludo off with no intent to resolve the issue he has created for himself
Plain & simple - Geo OWES Ludo - but then maybe Geo just does not care because as Geo has said - "I don't come here to the forum much anymore"
Kurt
Thanks for the explantion Kurt.
It certainly do not look good.
I'm not sure this belongs in the forum anymore, maybe better to turn it to a legal issue?
Geo
Well-known member
I will attach photos of Ludo's material tomorrow on this thread. It has been untouched (other than unboxing) all this time. I appreciate all of the sentiments expressed by everyone, good or bad. I was only surprised by a couple actually. The people that know me would know that the material was as safe with me as it would have been if Ludo would have just listened when I said that I COULD refine the material in the time he was wanting BUT I was no longer toll refining. But what ever. I would normally have told him to come and get his stuff out of my yard in a given time or he could deal with whoever stopped and picked it up from the roadside. But, I will take to high road and box the material.
Just to clear up a few things. Kurt, I have never liked you. You have always seemed aloof and thought you were better than other people. Standing around the corner to attack someone from the back. I wish you nothing but the best. Good luck.
Jeff, I put myself in a bad position on the forum by asking the members to contribute to you when you had bypass surgery and then brought it to you while you were in the hospital and was told to never do it again or be expelled from the forum. But what ever. You never seemed the type to jump on the hang-him-high band wagon. But again, what ever. I wish you good health for the rest of your life. Good bye my old friend, Sharky.
I have friends that has been following this thread and are upset about the way I've been talked about, called a liar and a thief. And I tell them that the people that know me knows better. But to them it is slander plain and simple. I am not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that slander is punishable under the law. I obviously care little about public opinion. Has anyone considered the validity of the claims? The only thing that I'm guilty of is not being a part of this slanderous plot to destroy my reputation. After what I went through when my other half died, I care very little what people think about me. Until I die and join her, it's just white noise to me. I will buy what I need to and pack up Ludo's material. When It's packed up, I will get it sent out the best way I can.
I did block Ludo from calling my phone. Any normal person would. I told him that I would inform him when It was ready. He would call me back to back dozens of times in a row. I will not be forced to answer a call when I feel it serves no purpose. No sane person would. Someone may give him a hint that when he harasses someone on the phone this way, they may block him. I couldn't have a peaceful lunch or dinner for the dozens of times he would call in a row.
So stay tuned. I will post pics tomorrow. When It's boxed up, I will post pics of that before sealing the boxes. I will post receipts with tracking when it goes out. After that, I swear that any more slandering my name will be met with charges. If I have committed a crime, I would be expecting the same. I am not expecting any charges on my part, but slander me again and there will charges on someone.
Just to clear up a few things. Kurt, I have never liked you. You have always seemed aloof and thought you were better than other people. Standing around the corner to attack someone from the back. I wish you nothing but the best. Good luck.
Jeff, I put myself in a bad position on the forum by asking the members to contribute to you when you had bypass surgery and then brought it to you while you were in the hospital and was told to never do it again or be expelled from the forum. But what ever. You never seemed the type to jump on the hang-him-high band wagon. But again, what ever. I wish you good health for the rest of your life. Good bye my old friend, Sharky.
I have friends that has been following this thread and are upset about the way I've been talked about, called a liar and a thief. And I tell them that the people that know me knows better. But to them it is slander plain and simple. I am not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that slander is punishable under the law. I obviously care little about public opinion. Has anyone considered the validity of the claims? The only thing that I'm guilty of is not being a part of this slanderous plot to destroy my reputation. After what I went through when my other half died, I care very little what people think about me. Until I die and join her, it's just white noise to me. I will buy what I need to and pack up Ludo's material. When It's packed up, I will get it sent out the best way I can.
I did block Ludo from calling my phone. Any normal person would. I told him that I would inform him when It was ready. He would call me back to back dozens of times in a row. I will not be forced to answer a call when I feel it serves no purpose. No sane person would. Someone may give him a hint that when he harasses someone on the phone this way, they may block him. I couldn't have a peaceful lunch or dinner for the dozens of times he would call in a row.
So stay tuned. I will post pics tomorrow. When It's boxed up, I will post pics of that before sealing the boxes. I will post receipts with tracking when it goes out. After that, I swear that any more slandering my name will be met with charges. If I have committed a crime, I would be expecting the same. I am not expecting any charges on my part, but slander me again and there will charges on someone.
Geo, I'm glad to hear from you. I look forward to you bringing this to a close.
Dave
Dave
Martijn
Well-known member
I disagree. We don't need to legally protect anyone. That gives responsibility to the forum and a false feeling of being protected against bad deals for either refiners or the scrap owners.
I have been conracted through this forum by a local and I am, just like GEO toll refining his material in my own time, the 'customer' knows this.
Did the forum knew he wrote me a PM and we agreed something? Do i want the forum to know? Does my customer? How could the forum possibly protect him from me scamming him if i wanted to?
When is it a scam? When percentages are not met, as in my case? It really made me feel bad for days, if not weeks trying to find any losses. Do we have detectives to do research?
Should the forum also compensate losses if it still goes south in one sides opinion?
Only inform.
Agreements are made between people or buisinesses. You get better at them in time, just like in refining.
We advise in refining and chemistry, not in legal cases. It's a learning curve.
Some new members contribute financially and thereby even feel that they should get a personal trainer!!??
Please no diaper department here.
They need to learn themselves. And start out small and build up reliable relations and trust.
Don't hand out fishes, hand out rods and nets.
Let this thread be a lesson for all to respect privacy and keep slander out.
Still not choosing any side, but defending our collective refiners club, and GEO from the things he was accused of. True or false. I was not there. I do have a gut feeling in one direction. I could be wrong.
Things are heating up here between respected members I learned from and admire and I truly am upset about it.
Give each other the benefit of the doubt, stick to proven facts and stay civilized.
Things may seem very wrong when presented in a certain way but it's still one side of a story until backed by proof.
Then the proof is only part of the whole story. There were conversations, phone calls and they were not recorded. What was once agreed in writing can be changed by a handshake, a wink or nodding. Prove that?
Martijn.
I agree.
We should all be, and ultimately are, responsible for our own actions. Looking back there has been threads that were limited due to the dangers of the chemicals, Cyanide for example. Rather than open discussions it had been deemed too dangerous for the public to know how to properly use it through open discussion. The fear was someone would hurt themself and cause legal problems for the forum. I feel a lack of know how will not stop those who are going to act irresponsible without quality instruction anyway. Sadly, in todays world anyone can sue another for anything, with no personal responsibility on the users part. Hopefully that feeling seems to be changing some what of late where the forum is concerned.
My reply wasn’t intended to be a point for an individual but a generalization more for others in the future to think about who they deal with and logistics problems that may arise from distance issues if they should arise.
I very seldom aim my comments at an individual, even in this case. Geo has been a large part of my learning and is directly responsible for my finding this forum. For that I have been, and still am, grateful to him.
Thank you for the reply. I knew, and have never heard anything about the issues around the help concerning the forum donations. I have recently been ask if that money did reach me and those who have ask have been told that it did. Hand delivered, in person, along with minor details. And much appreciated as well.
Edit to correct:
I meant to say,
I did not know, and have never heard….
Last edited:
Geo
Well-known member
UH-OH! Geo obviously still has Ludo's material intact. Any member who stated that I "obviously" no longer have Ludo's material was "obviously" full of it. I pretty much demand that he/they need not try to apologize as it is not accepted. Everyone else will just have to excuse the way I feel about this. I have some very important (to me) things I have to take care of for the next week. I will try my very best to have it boxed and ready to ship in the next week. If not, very soon it will be. I am so ready to be done with Ludo and his crap. oops, I mean scrap.
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Geo
Well-known member
It certainly looks as though the forum does have one. Just "obviously" not a good one.
macfixer01
Well-known member
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