Deplating silver-plated flatware

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sorry if my area-of-a-utensil approximation was misleading in it's lack-of-accuracy. To get it, I visualized a spoon, estimated the width of handle, length of handle, width of spoon part, length of spoon part, then used math to figure the surface area. very very very approximate just to get an idea of scale.
to sum it up, it looks like a given utensil could have anywhere from $0.10 - $1.10 in silver on it :p

for a small batch, sulfuric/nitric bath wouldn't be very wise. But if you have 1000, or even 100, silver plated things it could be a fun day at the hotplate-in-fumehood.
 
MysticColby said:
(...)
to sum it up, it looks like a given utensil could have anywhere from $0.10 - $1.10 in silver on it :p

I achieve in my practice generally about 3g of normal (large) spoons, provided that it is not heavily worn.
So per ounce Ag takes about 11 pieces. These results are here in Europe, I do not know how it is in the U.S.
 
ok, that does it. I'm going to start saving silver plated stuff I get for free. When I get a big box full, I'll recover it, probably with this method. I don't expect I'll get enough to warrant a reverser electroplating cell.
 
Henos,
I quote your post from another thread
I use the dangerous mixture H2SO4 + HNO3 (95/5 volume), hot (80 C). He comes true.
Silver crosses to the solution after the submersion, copper stays. You use the solution so long, until silver
stops to dissolve. I pour still HNO3 then a bit. Glasses and necessary glove !
You should then thin the solution water 1: 10.. One can push down silver the pieces of the copper, so long, until he
stops to give off. Good luck!
That's essentially how I used to do it, although I never liked doing it. Have you tried it at a lower temperature? I know it's much slower but it's also much safer. I had good luck at room temperature but it was on thinner silver. Stirring helped. With a small lab stirrer, it might work reasonably fast on thick silver at room temperature.
 
I do not think we would have to heat the concentrated sulfuric cell that much, heating it would make it de-plate faster but would also increases the danger of running the cell, it would still de-plate the silver from the base metals just taking a little longer, the small cell will generate heat in the reaction.

Just like the gold de-plating cell not having water in the solution would be important, so we would not attack the base metals unnecessarily.

I believe this would be similar to de-plating gold in our cells, where gold persulfate is formed at anode, and precious metals is de-plated as a persulfate, but once this leave's the proximity of the anode the gold is insoluble in the sulfuric acid precipitates out of solution as the ions move toward cathode, and persulfate is diluted in the acid away from the anode).

Silver is only slightly soluble as a sulfate so I believe it would also fall out of solution once electrolyte was saturated, (other wise wouldn't it plate to cathode, or the reaction cease once electrolyte reached a certain percentage of silver?), the small amount of nitric may help to keep silver nitrate (or maybe copper nitrate) in solution to assist in keeping electrolyte conductive.
 
goldsilverpro said:
(...) Have you tried it at a lower temperature? I know it's much slower but it's also much safer. (...)

I'd love to at low temperatures, but very poor performance indeed.

I do it a few years, a relatively simple way for a couple of plastic buckets, etc., and somehow luckily manage to avoid an accident.
Of course, safety glasses, gloves, etc.
I think that safety is also a good plan work.

In one day I was able to convert 50 - 60 kg flatwares.
Total time processing to obtain a pure metal melt is 3 days.
 
goldsilverpro said:
Henos,
I quote your post from another thread
(...)
You should then thin the solution water 1: 10.. (...)

it's a little outdated ... Now saturate the mixture and allowed to stand to gain
AgSO4 crystals in it, which creates the following day.
After separation of the crystals is referred to as acid for use .
 
Hello,
I put some pictures of these crystals AgSO4.
I do not know exactly how it is, but I think that emit acid solution hydrated crystals, as well as the crystals are formed
from a solution of CuSO4 x 5H2O. Thus, there is could and binding of water from the solution, which then gives the acid
largely devoid of water (which is formed by the reaction of dissolution Ag in the mixture of H2SO4 + HNO3)

best regards

boxkdl.jpg

boxcut.jpg

bucketi.jpg

buchner.jpg

cristm.jpg
 
The CRC Handbook only lists Ag2SO4 and none that are hydrated. CRC is pretty good about listing all varieties, so I'm wondering if a hydrated species of Ag2SO4 exists. Ag2SO4 is listed as a white rhombic crystal and that appears to be what you have.
 
Right, Ag2SO4, sorry ...
I myself was surprised at the last photo. While these other finely with
dissolved in water give a white precipitate sparingly soluble, these high dissolved
quickly and with almost no sediment. But could it be hydrated?
But I do not think I've discovered something new.
 
I love getting plate, I can pick it up cheap. About a buck a pound. melt it into strips that are mostly copper and about 1.2% Silver, and dunk it in my waste solutions and it cements out the silver in solution as well as the silver in the alloy comes out.

Not something anyone can really pay on but it helps with waste control and you get that little bonus plate when all said and done. A few oz here and there always adds up :)

Also just did some cool you tube vids melting and making 100 oz silver bars
http://www.youtube.com/user/prospectorsgold

Thanks,

David
 
Henos, could you give a few more details on how you do the procedure? I'm interested in what kind of container do you use, how is it heated, do you do anything to stop the sulfuric from taking up moisture from the air, and how much silver sulfate can you produce given your volume of acid?

In your post about the silver sulfate salt that easily dissolves, I recently read something in an old trade journal from the early-mid 1800s where they were refining silver with sulfuric acid, and they mentioned adding steam to the sulfuric acid and there being two different salts produced as the steam was admitted.

Here follows part of the document:

The clarified solution is siphoned off the gold from A A into C, which is an open cast iron pan, say 8 ft. by 4 ft. and 1 ft. deep. It is supported by means of a flange in another larger pan - not shown in the diagram - into which water may be admitted for cooling. Steam is blown into the acid solution, still very hot, as soon as C is filled. The steam is introduced about 1 in. below the surface of the liquid, blowing perpendicularly downward from a nozzle made of lead pipe through an aperture 1/8 in. in diameter. Under these circumstances the absorption of the steam is nearly perfect, and takes place without any splashing. The temperature rises with the increasing dilution, and may be regulated by the less experienced by manipulating the cooling tank. An actual boiling is not desired, because it protracts unnecessarily the operation by the less perfect condensation of the steam. No separation of silver sulphate occurs during this operation (and, consequently, there is no clotting of the steam nozzle), the large amount of free acid, combined with the increase of temperature, compensating for the diminution of the solubility of the sulphate by the dilution. The most important point in this procedure is to know when to stop the admission of steam.

To determine this, the operator takes a drop or two of the solution upon a cold iron plate by means of a glass rod and observes whether after cooling the sample congeals partly or wholly into a white mass of silver bisulphate, or whether the silver separates as a monosulphate in detached yellow crystals, leaving a mother liquor behind. As soon as the latter point has been reached, steam is shut off and the solution is allowed to crystallize, cold water being admitted into the outer pan. The operator may now be certain that the liquid will no longer congeal into a soft mass of silver bisulphate, which on contact with water will disintegrate into powder, obstinately retaining a large amount of free acid; but the silver will separate as a monosulphate in hard and large yellow crystals retaining no acid and preserving their physical characteristics when thrown into water. After cooling to, say, 80° F., the silver sulphate will have coated the pan C about 1 in. thick. There will also be found a deposit of copper sulphate when the mother acid, after having been used over and over again, has been sufficiently saturated therewith.

Read more: http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/scientific-american/sup7/Refining-Silver-Bullion.html#.USGPxGftNdg#ixzz2LDI5CLVM


I don't know if your salt may correspond to the bisulfate or not, but I thought the whole deal was interesting. In fact the whole deal of processing silver for gold recovery through the use of sulfuric acid in the 19th century is pretty interesting - historically interesting that is! It was quite sophisticated, with steam powered sulfuric acid pumps constructed from lead, and quite large processing volumes!
 
Welcome
In fact, already do not use this method, but I will explain shortly.
The water heater, I used an electric boiler with temperature control. Heat must be tight, otherwise
the process will not continue. Larger bucket equipment (PE) with an acid, to the
a second smaller diameter of the bottom of the holes in the course-silvered elements.
Some emit nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide think. In the summer it gets much easier.
I do not have a way to separate the air from the acid moisture, never I have not bothered.
Periodically, you need to pour a small amount of HNO3.
After saturation acid (when the performance drops significantly) shed all of the
canisters, I left the next day. Of course, the crystals were formed more rapidly
the strong cooling. I sipped crystals on the funnel (vacuum), flooded
water, next added the copper cementation etc ...

Drained after the addition of fresh acid could continue to operate. It came out
very efficiently, because I produced virtually only Ag2SO4 crystals.

Note-as you know, the hot acid is a very dangerous combination!
Regards
henos
 
Hmm, I wondered if PE or similar would hold up, it's a scary prospect having a failure of your container, it would be pretty violent if the container failed into your water bath (did I get that right that you are heating with a water bath?) Plastic isn't likely to rupture, if it is resistant chemically enough - however using water anywhere near this mixture seems like a potential additional hazard. Thanks for the info! It's interesting that someone has used this on a larger scale.

There was a post on this forum near the beginning with someone using concentrated sulfuric acid in a cell to deplate silver. It sounded reasonable, but still a lot of trouble for the return. I think with a low enough voltage and current you might be able to plate right from the anode to the cathode, so as not to exceed the ability of silver sulfate to travel from the anode to the cathode. Here's the post, maybe it'll interest you. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=267&p=15938&hilit=rooto+teaspoons#p15938
 
goldsilverpro
When it really slows down,

How many gramm silver can be stripped in 1 l hot sulfuric/nitric before you have to dilute and cement? Would I have to expect masses of NOx gas while stripping? Maybe this will be my plan C. I did this once with hot nitric/H2O2, which in it dangers may be comparable, wouldn't it? That time I stripped 50g silver in 2 hours from forks, knifes and spoons - one after one in a 500 ml beaker.

(no panic - this one I would do in a laboratory)
 
Yeah at a certain point the base metals started reacting in the sulfuric, it had gained too much water. I had used a mushy sodium nitrate (ie not really dry) but the water could also be coming from the air and the reaction itself. I may be able to do a little better eventually, but I think my 40 grams per liter is in the neighborhood of the maximum possible.
The fumes were worst during sodium nitrate additions. I wouldn't say the volume of fumes ever was large, but you will be spending time around the vessel taking out deplated material and putting fresh in, so breathing protection is a really good idea and of course run it outside or in a fume hood. Be careful against any splashing when taking items in or out of the stripping tank. A stainless vessel worked fine for me.

I'd do more of this stuff if I could source more silver plated stuff at a low enough price, and if I find another use for the spent acid. I'd like to try to use it to dissolve gold filled.
 
skippy said:
Yeah at a certain point the base metals started reacting in the sulfuric, it had gained too much water. I had used a mushy sodium nitrate (ie not really dry) but the water could also be coming from the air and the reaction itself. I may be able to do a little better eventually, but I think my 40 grams per liter is in the neighborhood of the maximum possible.
The fumes were worst during sodium nitrate additions. I wouldn't say the volume of fumes ever was large, but you will be spending time around the vessel taking out deplated material and putting fresh in, so breathing protection is a really good idea and of course run it outside or in a fume hood. Be careful against any splashing when taking items in or out of the stripping tank. A stainless vessel worked fine for me.

I'd do more of this stuff if I could source more silver plated stuff at a low enough price, and if I find another use for the spent acid. I'd like to try to use it to dissolve gold filled.

I think what your doing is awesome. Ive been trying to find good sources for sterling at prices around spot, but most sources are just exhausting with prices way over spot. Now silverplate on the other hand I can get hand over fist.(at a great price) Im a newb to this hobby, but would love to learn more. Some of the jargen is difficult for me to understand, but im sure it just takes time. I can definitely help you with getting silverplate.
 
I think what your doing is awesome. Ive been trying to find good sources for sterling at prices around spot, but most sources are just exhausting with prices way over spot. Now silverplate on the other hand I can get hand over fist.(at a great price) Im a newb to this hobby, but would love to learn more. Some of the jargen is difficult for me to understand, but im sure it just takes time. I can definitely help you with getting silverplate.

Check what's under your silverplate. If it is pure copper, then it is perfect for a CuSO4 cell. If it is Ni-Zn-Cu alloy or pure Zn, it is work and cost intensive. Then you shouldn't buy over 25% of spot and you should only use heavily plated material like 90-150g Ag/2400cm2. Knives, spoons and forks are almost never copper.

The common attitude on the forum is, that silver plate mostly is no profit.
 
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