Best process for PCBs, components, and chips?

[Liquidau]

Jason at Mount Baker hammer mills entire boards to around 20 Mesh, feeds this onto a shaker table which generates a rich, a moderate, a copper, and a plastic stream, then smelts the rich and moderate streams.

Many pros here do chips by incineration, milling, sieving, and then smelting or AR.

For a boutique refiner aiming to process 500 lbs or more of medium grade, mother, and telecom boards per day, what do the Moderators suggest is the optimal process/method to be most efficient and profitable?

Basically, is it better to harvest all chips, and resell the rest, or else grind up everything and separate out the PMs, collect and maybe purify the copper, and discard the plastics?
Access to a lab, and XRF, a depopulator, and a DIY incinerator and smelter.

 

[andu]

i'd definetly grind and separate, with utmost care for any dust generated. The plastic, if you make fuel, is quite useful. I'd say some bits can be left over in the plastic given the grinding and friction, so might want to test that carbon or plastic.

 

[nickvc]

I fear no one can give you a definitive answer to that question.
There are far too many variables such as your skill, exactly what equipment you have, exactly what type of boards you have and what values they contain either visible or encapsulated and how much time you have and what value you place on that time.
We tend to advise members to cherry pick what they process because when they do process the material it is visibly worthwhile but when you step up into commercial refining you can be less picky if you actually process in volume.
All I can suggest is to try all methods and see what suits and pays the bills, you can always add further processes as you become more confident in your earning potential.

 

[kurtak]

Jason at Mount Baker hammer mills entire boards to around 20 Mesh, feeds this onto a shaker table which generates a rich, a moderate, a copper, and a plastic stream, then smelts the rich and moderate streams.

I have watched those videos & though he is certainly recovering "some" values I can assure you "some" values are also being lost

For a boutique refiner aiming to process 500 lbs or more of medium grade, mother, and telecom boards per day

Processing 500 pounds of "mixed" consumer grade boards is only going to give you a return of about (plus/minus) 1 troy ounce gold - which "may" sound like a lot ($2000 per day) - BUT - your cost to just to set up is going to be BIG as is your daily cost to operate - AND - setting up on that scale will absolutely require approval & permitting from local/state/federal EPA

The EPA permitting/approval process alone will likely take a year or more - plus all the milling equipment - LARGE EPA approved incinerator with bag house & LARGE furnace etc. etc. etc. etc.

I hope you hope you have several hundred thousand (likely head to a million or more) to invest before you even start to see production let alone return

Kurt

 

[anachronism]

500 pounds per day of good boards that's a good amount. From experience I'd work out the grades, trade on the normal stuff and work (yourself) on the really high grade stuff.

 

[GoIdman]

Jason at Mount Baker hammer mills entire boards to around 20 Mesh, feeds this onto a shaker table which generates a rich, a moderate, a copper, and a plastic stream, then smelts the rich and moderate streams.

Many pros here do chips by incineration, milling, sieving, and then smelting or AR.

For a boutique refiner aiming to process 500 lbs or more of medium grade, mother, and telecom boards per day, what do the Moderators suggest is the optimal process/method to be most efficient and profitable?

Basically, is it better to harvest all chips, and resell the rest, or else grind up everything and separate out the PMs, collect and maybe purify the copper, and discard the plastics?
Access to a lab, and XRF, a depopulator, and a DIY incinerator and smelter.

As many before me exposed some strategies and processes, i would say that MBMM setup is useful if you process the same material but sh.it loads of them for example same type of boards as many as 2-3 tons per day. Then you can setup a system and you can always approximate your expected yield.

Working with all type of boards or medium grade boards will end you up in a confused environment without a clear perspective on your expected yields.

If you have the skills to construct your own machinery then you can consider building your own production line on smaller scale.

An MBMM ready to go setup will be very costly for your small operation.

By the way, you can find very good plans for hammer mills and shaker tables out there on the internet, it is not something that is a secret, if you build your own machine then you can fine tune it for your needs.

Pete

 

[Liquidau]

Thanks for the feedback.
Kurt, why all the EPA stuff for a basic hammer mill and shaker table?
Pete, I’ve studied a number of DIY mills and tables, and I will build them; thanks for supporting the idea.
But just wondering if anyone out there who has done this can weigh in and provide insight as to their experience—-surely some GRF members have milled components (assume depopulated boards) and then gravity separated the mash into three or four streams…?

 

[Swissgoldrefiner]

Jason at Mount Baker hammer mills entire boards to around 20 Mesh, feeds this onto a shaker table which generates a rich, a moderate, a copper, and a plastic stream, then smelts the rich and moderate streams.

Many pros here do chips by incineration, milling, sieving, and then smelting or AR.

For a boutique refiner aiming to process 500 lbs or more of medium grade, mother, and telecom boards per day, what do the Moderators suggest is the optimal process/method to be most efficient and profitable?

Basically, is it better to harvest all chips, and resell the rest, or else grind up everything and separate out the PMs, collect and maybe purify the copper, and discard the plastics?
Access to a lab, and XRF, a depopulator, and a DIY incinerator and smelter.

I think what pro do is usually first separate compound from mainboard.
In that way you make first separation from low grade and higher grade material.
Then you can use some of these chines PCB processing machine, which is huge, but on youtube it looks that it works good.
To be honest i have a friend who bought one and it never works well.
People he hire never done it and he take 2 year to setup it. And actually, it stil not working.
He even dont separate the compound from mainboard. He put everything in shreder and then pass it trought that machine.
Then at the end a shaker table. Really messy setup. I saw the concentrate after shaker table, it stil have lot of fiber which where size 3-4 mm.
I found what jason show on his video from MBMM looks very good as results.
The price for the setup is cheap, maybe less than 50'000 USD.

 

[anachronism]

Thanks for the feedback.
Kurt, why all the EPA stuff for a basic hammer mill and shaker table?
Pete, I’ve studied a number of DIY mills and tables, and I will build them; thanks for supporting the idea.
But just wondering if anyone out there who has done this can weigh in and provide insight as to their experience—-surely some GRF members have milled components (assume depopulated boards) and then gravity separated the mash into three or four streams…?

It's because processing of electronic waste is regulated if it requires machinery Liquidau. This is because all electronic waste is deemed to be hazardous.

 

[kurtak]

Kurt, why all the EPA stuff for a basic hammer mill and shaker table?

The simple answer is what Jon posted -----

It's because processing of electronic waste is regulated if it requires machinery Liquidau. This is because all electronic waste is deemed to be hazardous.

Back in the mid to late 90s as a result of more & more "end of use" electronics going to the dump/landfill (you throw away your old computer to up grade to the latest & greatest) the government (EPA) determined that electronic waste was hazardous to the environment

Hazardous because of the heavy metals (lead, mercury, cadmium etc. etc.) used in making electronics as well as the toxins in the plastics (epoxy resins in fiberglass part of boards in particular) breaking down & leach into the water table - this toxic leaching is the result of the acidic nature of organic matter rotting in the landfill as well as acid rain leaching through the landfill

So the government (EPA) started regulating that - electronic "devices" can no longer go to the dump/landfill - they must go to a "certified" collector/recycler (certified = government approved = permitting process)

So the permitting starts with handling of whole devices (on large scale)

The more they are broke down the more regulation (more certified approval/permitting) which goes something like this ---------

1) certified collector - you can collect whole devises but can't break them down (tear apart) they ether have to go to a recycler - or you need to be certified as a recycler

2) certified recycler - tear down whole devises to separate plastic, iron, copper, aluminum, circuit boards etc. that then need to go to a processor - or you need to be certified as a processor

3) certified process - there are different levels of certification/permitting needed here depending on the level of processing you intend to do

A) shredding - needs to be approved/permitted to insure proper dust control/management

B) concentrating shredded material (such as shaker table) to insure nothing ends up being washed down storm drainage system ending up in rivers

Then the 3 BIG ones that will need a HUGE amount of approval before getting permitted - without going into detail they are ----

1) incineration (2) smelting (3) any kind of chemical work (such as leaching - refining &/or running a copper cell)

Each & every one of those steps in the process need to be approved - certified - & then permitted according to federal EPA standards - which states must meet - but states also have the right to impose even stricter regulations & then local government wants it's hand in it to make sure you are meeting federal/state regulations

So my reply was to the full extents of your proposed plan which was --------

Basically, is it better to harvest all chips, and resell the rest, or else grind up everything and separate out the PMs, collect and maybe purify the copper, and discard the plastics?
Access to a lab, and XRF, a depopulator, and a DIY incinerator and smelter.

Per the bold print - you will NEED approval/certification at each & every above level to get the permitting to process 500 pounds of CBs per day to the level you propose in you OP

How do I know all this - because I worked with a scrapyard in a joint venture with that very thing as the intended goal --- after about a year & a half of "trying to get to that goal we abandoned the idea due to the HUGE permitting process that we were not even close to finishing - after a year & a half into it - so we "fell back" to just being a recycler

I see you live in Canada - I doubt Canada has less regulations then the US because EPA regulation (of E-waste) has now become "a world wide" concern

Kurt

 

[Liquidau]

Understood well, thanks.

 

[Alondro]

The simple answer is what Jon posted -----


Back in the mid to late 90s as a result of more & more "end of use" electronics going to the dump/landfill (you throw away your old computer to up grade to the latest & greatest) the government (EPA) determined that electronic waste was hazardous to the environment

Hazardous because of the heavy metals (lead, mercury, cadmium etc. etc.) used in making electronics as well as the toxins in the plastics (epoxy resins in fiberglass part of boards in particular) breaking down & leach into the water table - this toxic leaching is the result of the acidic nature of organic matter rotting in the landfill as well as acid rain leaching through the landfill

So the government (EPA) started regulating that - electronic "devices" can no longer go to the dump/landfill - they must go to a "certified" collector/recycler (certified = government approved = permitting process)

So the permitting starts with handling of whole devices (on large scale)

The more they are broke down the more regulation (more certified approval/permitting) which goes something like this ---------

1) certified collector - you can collect whole devises but can't break them down (tear apart) they ether have to go to a recycler - or you need to be certified as a recycler

2) certified recycler - tear down whole devises to separate plastic, iron, copper, aluminum, circuit boards etc. that then need to go to a processor - or you need to be certified as a processor

3) certified process - there are different levels of certification/permitting needed here depending on the level of processing you intend to do

A) shredding - needs to be approved/permitted to insure proper dust control/management

B) concentrating shredded material (such as shaker table) to insure nothing ends up being washed down storm drainage system ending up in rivers

Then the 3 BIG ones that will need a HUGE amount of approval before getting permitted - without going into detail they are ----

1) incineration (2) smelting (3) any kind of chemical work (such as leaching - refining &/or running a copper cell)

Each & every one of those steps in the process need to be approved - certified - & then permitted according to federal EPA standards - which states must meet - but states also have the right to impose even stricter regulations & then local government wants it's hand in it to make sure you are meeting federal/state regulations

So my reply was to the full extents of your proposed plan which was --------


Per the bold print - you will NEED approval/certification at each & every above level to get the permitting to process 500 pounds of CBs per day to the level you propose in you OP

How do I know all this - because I worked with a scrapyard in a joint venture with that very thing as the intended goal --- after about a year & a half of "trying to get to that goal we abandoned the idea due to the HUGE permitting process that we were not even close to finishing - after a year & a half into it - so we "fell back" to just being a recycler

I see you live in Canada - I doubt Canada has less regulations then the US because EPA regulation (of E-waste) has now become "a world wide" concern

Kurt

Unless you're in China. Then you bribe the local CCP officials and dump all your toxic waste in the river and wipe out a few more species of freshwater dolphins... as well as give everyone downstream cancer.