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snail

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
90
I have an offer from a small hobby jeweler to process a small quanity of bench waste and 5 ounces of carat gold scraps. I have no idea of customary percentages to charge for the service. Could anyone help me with some information.

Thanks Dale
 
First off, do you really know how to refine? Can you produce gold of acceptable quality? If not, accepting his material can prove to be a fatal mistake. One of my best advertisers was a friend that was slip shod in his refining techniques, and refused to change. As he supplied low quality gold to his customers, who he had pursed with vigor, they slowly quit using his services, at which time he'd give them my name. I ended up with his entire customer base because he was inept. Please keep that in mind. You must be able to walk before you can run.

OK--my sermon is over----I hope it served a purpose.

I charged 10% for refining bench sweeps and solids unless the yield exceeded 10 troy ounces, at which time I made an adjustment, and did the work for 8%. It is a fair fee, but there were no other hidden charges, and I DID NOT steal customer values. That's the other big mistake refiners like to make.

My fee was in the way of withholding the metal. I did not accept cash payment. That insures you get paid.

I refined polishing wastes and floor sweeps for a 15% fee. You earn the money on this stuff, it's labor intensive.

Carpet fee was 50%----and it can be a losing proposition at that price. All depends on the carpet.

Harold
 
Midwest Refineries pays 94% on karat gold. They're big and are as straight as anybody. For the 5 ozs, they would only charge him $100, at 94%. For good bench waste (filings), collect a little more, per ounce. For bench sweeps, more. For buffing dust, carpets, traps, and floor sweeps, a lot more. You need more customers.
 
Harold,

I'm curious how you transitioned into the refining field. Did you wake up one day and decide to refine, then commit your undivided attention to making your business grow, or did you slowly transition into refining as your customer base grew? At what point did you set up a dedicated shop space and make the capital investments in equipment?

Steve
 
I started refining when it was illegal to own bullion. I did so because I felt it was one of the rotten things our government had done to the citizens of the nation, and had a burning desire to see and own pure gold. I had no intentions of ever refining for gain---nor did I expect that the law would change.

Jan. 1, of '75, all controlling regulations of gold were abandoned by the government. By then, I was involved in refining, albeit it as a relatively inferior workman. My quality was woefully lacking, and was slow to improve because I had no clue, and no one to help me in ways that were needed. (Very unlike the readers of this forum)

My ex brother-in-law was spending time with a couple of elderly manufacturing jewelers, and casually made mention to one of them that I was refining gold. He asked if I would be interested in refining his waste, which I accepted. It grew from there. I refined for him about three times each year, but word started to spread, and others inquired. I never advertised, and never promoted my business, nor did I expect it to become one. I was running a very successful machine shop, serving the defense, pharmaceutical and aero-space industries, and was well pleased with my station in life.

As things progressed, more and more people started using my refining services, so that made it nearly impossible for me to split my time between the shop and refining, in spite of the fact that they were very close to one another.

The move to the castle was the end of my machining experience. We moved to an unfinished structure, with no lab or shop at the ready. It took several months to get the lab up and running, but I had accepted waste materials from my customers, and provided a rough equivalent to their wastes in pure gold, so they could stay in operation. By the time I got the lab running, and got caught up with the back orders, they were returning at the same rate that they were going out, so I never really ever got "caught up" again. I turned my full attention to refining and decided to abandon the shop, in spite of the fact that I had had new paperwork printed for the current address. Closing the doors on the shop was never in my plans. I had on choice but to do so, or abandon refining.

The business continued to grow, so over a period of ten years, it was so large I could no longer keep pace without working better than 12 hour days, 7 days/week. I was growing weary, and EPA was tightening the noose, making the purchase of chemicals ever more expensive and difficult, plus we had purchased our retirement property here in Washington, and were eager to move on in life. As a result of being overwhelmed, I sold the business, and after much difficulty, the castle, as well, and moved. That was the end of my working years.

I never invested in equipment in the sense of buying things. Being a machinist, all of my equipment was home built. It's not easy to buy what you need, so building was in my best interest, anyway.

Scale is important for the home refiner. who isn't likely to process metals in large volumes. Buying a small ball mill that will serve the intended purpose, for example, can be difficult, at best. By building my own equipment, it was sized to my needs. That was true of everything, fume hood, agitation tank, furnaces, ball mill and even a gasketed filter press.

All of this equipment evolved as need dictated. I did nothing to grow the business, I simply did what was necessary in order to fill the demand.

The most important thing I can offer to anyone that desires to refine for gain is to not get involved commercially until you can turn out quality that rivals industry, and be able to serve all your customer's needs where gold is concerned. It's isn't likely that anyone will survive on running waste electronic scrap alone. The yield for time invested is generally very low, which is the reason I never accepted the material for processing. I simply could not justify the time investment when I had high grade wastes to process.

If you are to refine for manufacturing jewelers, you must be able to provide pure silver as well as gold. The platinum group can be a weak point, for few bench men work with platinum in the way of manufacturing----and the refining and alloying of that group of metals tends to be beyond the ability of the home refiner, anyway. I compensated my customers that submitted platinum metals with gold, which was far more interesting to them than platinum.

Did I miss anything? This was written in haste. If you have a specific question, or if I overlooked one, please ask again. I'll answer this evening.

Harold
 
I worked in a place, for 3 or 4 years, where we did lots of buffing dust (polishing wastes). We bought it all outright. As it sits, it might be worth $200/#, or more. We sampled it and fire assayed it (as many as 8-10 assays for a large batch) and bought it outright for maybe 60% of value. The Pt, Pd, Ir, and Ru, was a bonus. Sometimes, we bought and prepared 250 pounds at a time. If only Pt Gp was in the buffing dust, it ran more valuable, of course.
 
goldsilverpro said:
I worked in a place, for 3 or 4 years, where we did lots of buffing dust (polishing wastes). We bought it all outright. As it sits, it might be worth $200/#, or more. We sampled it and fire assayed it (as many as 8-10 assays for a large batch) and bought it outright for maybe 60% of value. The Pt, Pd, Ir, and Ru, was a bonus. Sometimes, we bought and prepared 250 pounds at a time. If only Pt Gp was in the buffing dust, it ran more valuable, of course.

Interesting that you say that as im a jewellery wholesaler with a decent size customer base and they are all happy to sell me their polishing sweeps for a fixed price, too many of them are sick of getting ripped off by so many refiners here in Australia so if they get some value back from the waste and its cash in their hands their happy. Only risk of that for me is your not 100% sure whats in the waste although since i sell to them already i have an idea on what they work on mostly (9ct, 18ct, silver etc..) which helps, the upside to buying the waste on the spot is the return can be much higher and you have the customer's trust since your paying for it without refining 1st. I have 10kg's of polishing sweeps waiting to be bought but 1st i need to master refining myself before moving into this direction.

Funny thing is i know many customers that actually throw out their sweeps/wastes so that just goes to show you many of them are ignorant at the losses that are occur when working with jewellery.
 
Harold, You are a man of integrity and ethical buisness practice. I appreciate your honesty and honest buisness practices.

I really enjoyed reading how you were forced into the refining buisness. I hope that everyday of your retirement in Washington, is filled with wonder, joy and pleasantness.

Enjoy the fruits of your honest labors.

Jim
 
Thank you, Jim, for your very kind remarks.

I have enjoyed my retirement, although I have been very busy with the building project. I'm dreadfully slow, so it has taken a long time, but we're seeing daylight at the end of the tunnel.

Honesty in refining is paramount to success. I mentioned in other posts that I lost a few customers through the years. There's nothing like ignorance on the part of a customer to lead them to expect unreasonable returns. Once a person thinks you've shafted them, there's no way you can prove otherwise-----for you've destroyed the evidence by processing.

Best advice I can offer anyone that gets involved in refining commercially, and is honest in their dealings with their customers, is to immediately invite an unhappy customer to find a new refiner. All the back peddling you can do will only confirm their unfounded suspicion that you are crooked. Rarely will such a person listen to reason.

Harold
 
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